Birch & Bevel 230mm Carbon Gyuto

[Mytola]

Yes, our perception of blade length is very interesting indeed! My Munetoshi that's at 245mm feels like it's at least 5cm longer than the Birch & Bevel 230mm, and the Birch & Bevel honestly feels like it's exatly as long as the Hado W#2 210mm gyuto that I also bought this summer, even though it's really closer to 200mm in blade length. Profile, weight and distal daper is the key here, I think. Of course we all have different hands, different cutting boards, different kitchens and different technique and food preferences, but the Birch & Bevel 230mm is the first knife of mine that I feel is very useful for just about any task, and it's the first knife I feel is both long enough to do nice even long slices and still feel short and nimble in my hands.

I still just marvel about how insaaanely thin and neat the tip is, while the heel feels the perfect height and very sturdy. Gotta give props to the handle too, it's a very nice design that's special without being too "blingy"

I think you are really on to something with these knives, and I would love to see more knife types as well. How about a stainless 135-150mm petty or something?

 

[timebard]

Arrived yesterday safe and sound. Nice knife. Pretty and comfy handle although I miss the hammered endcap. Smoother, nicer forged finish than my MCX Spåre bunka. Still has the slightly awkward finger notch shape.

Tested side by side with my new Eddworks 225 and first cuts feel good. Profile a little more rounded than my preference but cutting performance is definitely there. Very nice neutral to slightly forward balance.

 

[esoo]

That's an interesting point. As someone who follows trends in the kitchen knives game, length is something that swings back and forth. Personally, I think 230mm is perfect for me, but taper plays a big roll here. A few months back I received a knife from @KAMON Knives which was 270mm, when it first arrived I did my usual inspection and quality checks to ensure the knife was not damaged in the post and then I sat down with the spec sheet to start entering the details into the site. I then noticed that Ben had marked the knife down as a 270mm, I was so surprised that I had to go and measure the knife. On my first inspection the knife felt like a 250mm at most.

A good distal taper gives a knife so much versatility. Aside from making the knife feel lighter and more nimble it also ensures that you have sections of the blade that can be used for more workhorse type tasks and other sections that can be used for finer more detailed work. In addition, it means that the same dividing action that convex geometry gives a knife is also applied from tip to heel. So, when doing push cuts it improves the cutting performance of the knife.

Naturally, you can get more stability from a knife that features a thicker consistent spine or a finer more delicate slicing performance from a consistently thin spine, but you sacrifice handling and versatility.

For the Birch and Bevel Gyuto this tapered, tall, KS profile is perfect as an all-rounder, a daily driver, and that's what we set out to make.

I really appreciate all the feedback you guys are delivering here and @martinhuber, @Fredrik Spåre and I are taking note as we hope to continually improve

One of the things that makes the MCX/Birch and Bevel knives feel so short and nimble is the swept back heel.

If you hold the knife in a pinch grip you "lose" the length of the blade that is swept back, as you don't tend to cut right under your hand.

For example, here is the 230 MCX Spare vs my 225 Kippington. I've tried to line the tips up at the same spot. Looking at the where the neck turns down to the heel they are close, but you can see how much further back the heel is. When used in a pinch grip, the MCX feels more compact while the Kippington feels much bigger, even though it has a shorter blade length.

And to be clear, I'm not saying one is better than the other. They are just different. It's just one more thing that makes one knife feel different from another.

 

[moderncooking]

Yes, our perception of blade length is very interesting indeed! My Munetoshi that's at 245mm feels like it's at least 5cm longer than the Birch & Bevel 230mm, and the Birch & Bevel honestly feels like it's exatly as long as the Hado W#2 210mm gyuto that I also bought this summer, even though it's really closer to 200mm in blade length. Profile, weight and distal daper is the key here, I think. Of course we all have different hands, different cutting boards, different kitchens and different technique and food preferences, but the Birch & Bevel 230mm is the first knife of mine that I feel is very useful for just about any task, and it's the first knife I feel is both long enough to do nice even long slices and still feel short and nimble in my hands.

I still just marvel about how insaaanely thin and neat the tip is, while the heel feels the perfect height and very sturdy. Gotta give props to the handle too, it's a very nice design that's special without being too "blingy"

I think you are really on to something with these knives, and I would love to see more knife types as well. How about a stainless 135-150mm petty or something?

Thanks for the props, we are have several updates coming soon, fancy new masur handle, and yes some new shapes.

@timebard we actually have changed the finger notch on the most recent batch, which is having handles fitted now. Its just a little deeper now.

 

[moderncooking]

One of the things that makes the MCX/Birch and Bevel knives feel so short and nimble is the swept back heel.

If you hold the knife in a pinch grip you "lose" the length of the blade that is swept back, as you don't tend to cut right under your hand.

For example, here is the 230 MCX Spare vs my 225 Kippington. I've tried to line the tips up at the same spot. Looking at the where the neck turns down to the heel they are close, but you can see how much further back the heel is. When used in a pinch grip, the MCX feels more compact while the Kippington feels much bigger, even though it has a shorter blade length.


And to be clear, I'm not saying one is better than the other. They are just different. It's just one more thing that makes one knife feel different from another.

I never really considered that, its very nice observation. How is the balance on the Kippington, is it forward heavy?

 

[Gshep91]

yes some new shapes.

Already told @martinhuber on Instagram but I’m making it official. The world needs a big BBC - Birch and Bevel Cleaver.

 

[esoo]

I never really considered that, its very nice observation. How is the balance on the Kippington, is it forward heavy?

The Kippington is balanced perfectly at the pinch. The handle may be larger but it is pine so it is light.

 

[A.Malcolm.ations]

Received last night and I’m super stoked to try it out today. Overall a nice knife from first appearances.

 

[A.Malcolm.ations]

Little dice with it. Great on onions! Finding the profile to be very friendly to me, which is surprising because I usually like a flatter profile. Very comfy and easy to use so far. I didn’t record the horizontal slices but it’s got a fine tip and does quite well with them.

 

[timebard]

Just adding a few thoughts from when I had it...

- It seems like Frederik has been incrementally improving a number of things with his knives (great to hear the choil is one of them in the next batch), including refining the grind and forged finish texture, which both felt better than the Spåre MCX bunka I have.
- 175ish grams is a little lighter than I like a 230, but I have to admit it felt good in hand. Nimble but still forward balanced is a tough combo that it executes well.
- The stacked birch part of the handle looks and feels very cool - great touch.
- Performance wise I used it side by side with my Eddworks 225 and was pleased that they were pretty neck and neck cutting performance wise. I prefer the Eddworks profile, choil, and ergonomics in hand, but the Spåre balance was a little more aggressive which I like. Pure ease of cutting probably goes to the Eddworks but only by a hair.

 

[moderncooking]

Just adding a few thoughts from when I had it...

- It seems like Frederik has been incrementally improving a number of things with his knives (great to hear the choil is one of them in the next batch), including refining the grind and forged finish texture, which both felt better than the Spåre MCX bunka I have.
- 175ish grams is a little lighter than I like a 230, but I have to admit it felt good in hand. Nimble but still forward balanced is a tough combo that it executes well.
- The stacked birch part of the handle looks and feels very cool - great touch.
- Performance wise I used it side by side with my Eddworks 225 and was pleased that they were pretty neck and neck cutting performance wise. I prefer the Eddworks profile, choil, and ergonomics in hand, but the Spåre balance was a little more aggressive which I like. Pure ease of cutting probably goes to the Eddworks but only by a hair.

Hey @timebard,

Thank you for those details. With the Birch and Bevel range we wanted to offer something for everyone and every use case. That is why the Carbon Gyuto has this very aggressive KS profile and the SanMai blades have a more traditional Japanese profile, similar to the Eddworks. Although I think our SanMai profile is a little more elegant, but I am biased

In the up and coming generation of Classic Wrought Gyutos we have gone for a kind of hybrid of this. It's a little more pointed than your Eddworks and previous Classic Wroughts, but also a little more santoku tip than the Carbon Gyuto. They will also be a little thiner and will arrive with a little more toothiness at the edge than the more polished, protein friendly edge we have given previous releases.

Naturally, anyone should be able to adjust the edge polish with whetstones, but it seems that generally people love that super toothy tomato skin killer sharpness over more polished protein friendly edges. At least out of the box.

 

[moderncooking]

By the way for those who have been thinking about buying one of the Carbon Gyutos, but perhaps a little unsure about the dark styling of the ancient oak and stacked birchbark we have something for you.

These Masur birch, G10, Micarta and Brass versions will be going online later today

 

[moderncooking]

P.s. if you are a member of the KKF Passaround group please write me for a discount code. We appreciate you

 

[Gshep91]

By the way for those who have been thinking about buying one of the Carbon Gyutos, but perhaps a little unsure about the dark styling of the ancient oak and stacked birchbark we have something for you.

View attachment 269878

These Masur birch, G10, Micarta and Brass versions will be going online later today

Love the new handles! It’s a shame the wallet is feeling as light as it is these days lol.

Will these be available on the wrought & honyaki versions by Jonas later as well?

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Hey @timebard,

Thank you for those details. With the Birch and Bevel range we wanted to offer something for everyone and every use case. That is why the Carbon Gyuto has this very aggressive KS profile and the SanMai blades have a more traditional Japanese profile, similar to the Eddworks. Although I think our SanMai profile is a little more elegant, but I am biased

In the up and coming generation of Classic Wrought Gyutos we have gone for a kind of hybrid of this. It's a little more pointed than your Eddworks and previous Classic Wroughts, but also a little more santoku tip than the Carbon Gyuto. They will also be a little thiner and will arrive with a little more toothiness at the edge than the more polished, protein friendly edge we have given previous releases.

Naturally, anyone should be able to adjust the edge polish with whetstones, but it seems that generally people love that super toothy tomato skin killer sharpness over more polished protein friendly edges. At least out of the box.

View attachment 269877

Interesting point about the edge being more protein friendly than toothy. I noted that right away and it is very apparent against an Eddworks. He uses a DMT fine stone so they are really toothy. Normally I prefer a more toothy edge as I do a lot of tomato and bell pepper. I have to say though for a less toothy edge these carbons really do well against skinned veggies. I just put a fresh edge on mine this weekend and went to 5k to keep a similar edge. It just works.

 

[moderncooking]

Interesting point about the edge being more protein friendly than toothy. I noted that right away and it is very apparent against an Eddworks. He uses a DMT fine stone so they are really toothy. Normally I prefer a more toothy edge as I do a lot of tomato and bell pepper. I have to say though for a less toothy edge these carbons really do well against skinned veggies. I just put a fresh edge on mine this weekend and went to 5k to keep a similar edge. It just works.

Thanks Matt, I think it’s really up to the knife owner. I customise pretty much every knife I buy. I just know what I like and I see it as part of the fun of knife ownership.

With that said, that first cut does leave an impression and a tomato is a very common test

 

[OnionSlicer]

Just want to say I love reading this passaround and seeing the design iterations, hopefully more people in the community learn about how great this line is.

 

[VincenteFox]

I'm glad you guys did/are doing this. I'm looking at the B&B Carbon Gyuto and reading everyone's experiences, seeing the photos and videos has helped me a lot.

 

[A.Malcolm.ations]

Okay, I worked a crazy 84 hour week between helping out a friend and my normal job last week and so I didn’t have time to get down to the post office until now… but the knife is on route to the next participant.
Overall I was quite impressed with this piece. Not on my “must have” list, but I can definitely see this as a solid option for a lot of people. I honestly would say that I have a knife around the same price that I have more connection to that would keep me from this. Loved the steel, great profile, lovely tip, thin edge without feeling delicate…. Also, I liked the handle, I thought it went with the blade quite well. Overall a hard knife to beat for the price.

 

[gentiscid]

The knife arrived safe from @Malcolm Johnson

It’s in good condition. Have not tested it yet but thinking of Flitz it and strop in on jnats and start using it for the next few days until I pass it to the next person in line.

 

[Gshep91]

The knife arrived safe from @Malcolm Johnson

It’s in good condition. Have not tested it yet but thinking of Flitz it and strop in on jnats and start using it for the next few days until I pass it to the next person in line.

How’s it going @gentiscid?

 

[SwampDonkey]

How’s it going @gentiscid?

He shipped to me a few days ago, I should get it Friday.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Knife arrived today from @gentiscid and is in good condition. Lighter than I anticipated it to be but I am absolutely in love with this handle, it fits my hand quite well. Edge could use a light touch up but is in remarkably good shape for this far in a passaround with everyone just stropping it. Will give a more thorough write-up after this weekend.

 

[Gshep91]

Knife arrived today from @gentiscid and is in good condition. Lighter than I anticipated it to be but I am absolutely in love with this handle, it fits my hand quite well. Edge could use a light touch up but is in remarkably good shape for this far in a passaround with everyone just stropping it. Will give a more thorough write-up after this weekend.

View attachment 278457
View attachment 278458

Feel free to sharpen as you’d like!

 

[SwampDonkey]

Welp looks like I've fallen victim to the enablers here. I put the knife to work making a batch of coq au vin and doing some testing next to my Shindo 220 gyuto (closest thing I had to compare). I lightly touched up the edge on a coticule, and am glad I did, the knife really came to life after. It's terrifying to sharpen someone else's knife so I removed as little steel as possible but I did notice the steel was quite hard, I was hoping just a pass on a BBW would add a little tooth back but it didn't do anything so I had to go to the coti.

On to the cutting; it is an absolute delight to cut onions with. The aggressive distal taper lasers through with very minimal resistance. Good food release on celery and the profile has a nice flat spot near the heel but enough sweep at the tip to rock if that's your thing. I preferred the Shindo on carrots, it cut through them with a little less resistance but onions and shallots go to the B&B.

The finger notch...I thought I would like it, it was a selling point for me visually and I was right to assume it'd be comfortable, but it does make the blade feels shorter and I noticed product would crawl up the blade and hit my finger when dicing an onion with the heel. Kinda annoying though not a deal breaker. Otherwise the knife is comfortable to use and as mentioned before, the handle is exceptionally comfortable. I want to send all my blades to @martinhuber for a rehandle. Good balance, this weighed 174 g. The blade came with a patina already and I think I added a bit but it's hard to tell. Takes some pretty and subtle purples/blues but I didn't notice any reactivity/smell.

I'll be purchasing the 250.

 

[martinhuber]

I want to send all my blades to @martinhuber for a rehandle.

Reading this after a f*cked up day...made me smile. Thanks

 

[moderncooking]

Welp looks like I've fallen victim to the enablers here. I put the knife to work making a batch of coq au vin and doing some testing next to my Shindo 220 gyuto (closest thing I had to compare). I lightly touched up the edge on a coticule, and am glad I did, the knife really came to life after. It's terrifying to sharpen someone else's knife so I removed as little steel as possible but I did notice the steel was quite hard, I was hoping just a pass on a BBW would add a little tooth back but it didn't do anything so I had to go to the coti.

On to the cutting; it is an absolute delight to cut onions with. The aggressive distal taper lasers through with very minimal resistance. Good food release on celery and the profile has a nice flat spot near the heel but enough sweep at the tip to rock if that's your thing. I preferred the Shindo on carrots, it cut through them with a little less resistance but onions and shallots go to the B&B.

The finger notch...I thought I would like it, it was a selling point for me visually and I was right to assume it'd be comfortable, but it does make the blade feels shorter and I noticed product would crawl up the blade and hit my finger when dicing an onion with the heel. Kinda annoying though not a deal breaker. Otherwise the knife is comfortable to use and as mentioned before, the handle is exceptionally comfortable. I want to send all my blades to @martinhuber for a rehandle. Good balance, this weighed 174 g. The blade came with a patina already and I think I added a bit but it's hard to tell. Takes some pretty and subtle purples/blues but I didn't notice any reactivity/smell.

I'll be purchasing the 250.

Thank you for the honest and open feedback. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the knife and I appreciate your support. When you put your heart and soul into something like this it's so nice to read that people are enjoying them. Martin said it best, thank you

 

[SwampDonkey]

Packed up and off to @nickrut , my 250 should arrive sometime this weekend so I'll post a little comparison of my thoughts here too in case anyone is stuck between the 2 like I was.

 

[Gshep91]

Packed up and off to @nickrut , my 250 should arrive sometime this weekend so I'll post a little comparison of my thoughts here too in case anyone is stuck between the 2 like I was.

Bigger is always better.

Ask @martinhuber

 

[SwampDonkey]

For those interested in the 250:
Mine came in, with the best packaging I've seen on a knife. Very much gives you the impression you purchased a high quality product. The knife's edge is 254x55mm and weighs 195 g.

It basically addresses any gripes I had with the 230. Nice forward balance, making the knife feel a little more substantial than the weight would have you think, strong distal taper, rounded and comfortable choil/spine, and a deliciously sized ~flat spot for push cutters and choppers. It isn't purely flat as shown in pics below and doesn't have a hard stop like a Yoshikane, so you can still rock if you like but this knife seems more geared towards pushers (good!). Excellent factory edge, cleanly sliced paper towels and occasionally wants to bite into my cutting board. The extra length/larger "flat" spot negates my beef with the finger notch and it is now back to being a comfy positive. I must reiterate my love for Martin's handles as well.

I haven't been able to cut with it a whole lot and won't until Thanksgiving, but the 250 feels more confident and less delicate than the 230, which wasn't delicate in its own right per se, but I was inclined to be more conscious of my cuts/technique rather than drunkenly blasting through produce like a workhorse. The convex grind feels fairly subtle, though I've only been side by side testing with a heavily convex Okubo workhorse so I need to spot check against a few other knives. Silent, smooth cutting on big carrots, and excellent on onions, but I noticed some stiction on butternut squash. Playing with technique helped but I ran out of squash before I had unlocked the cheat code. Definitely better food release than my Yoshikane 240. All in all it reminds me a lot of a Kochi 240 but I like the profile, balance, and weight better on the B&B. Doesn't feel as delicate as the Kochi or Yoshi.