Burr removal

[hibbs00]

I sharpened about ten soft stainless knives tonight, mostly 1.4116 Henckels. Some had never been sharpened since purchase (in 2007). The edges were visibly reflective but they weren’t chipped. I got out the SG220, SG500, JKI 1000 DR, SG2000, and (for a “razor sharp” request) the SG16000.

Edges that still showed factory bevel got touched up with the green diamond 1k, then microbeveled with SG2000.

Edges that needed regrinding got the SG220, SG500, SG2000 progression.

All shave sharp by the end, microbeveled at about 22° per side.

Burr was sensed using fingernail test. When I do the fingernail test I am not slicing longitudinally along the length of the blade, I am holding it static to see if the edge grabs when push-shaving toward the fingertip and toward the cuticle. If it catches one way and not the other then the burr is still bending.

I left the original geometry and did not thin behind the edge. In one or two cases the recurve was so pronounced I built a thick black line along the edge of the stone.
View attachment 308635View attachment 308636View attachment 308637

Very nice! How long did all of them take?
What angle did you sharpen at before the 22 degree micro bevel?

 

[mengwong]

Very nice! How long did all of them take?
What angle did you sharpen at before the 22 degree micro bevel?

The whole process probably took 60–90 minutes, not counting breaks. So 5–10 minutes per knife. One or two had been previously convex sharpened, and took more time to match the existing grind.

I tried to match the existing bevel if there was one, and that required feeling the feedback rather than hearing the feedback as I was outdoors with a dinner party going on around me. The SG don’t give much audible feedback anyway so I really had to match the bevel angle by feeling for the flat spot against the stone.

Since I had the SG220 with me I was tempted to thin, but thought better of it given time constraints.

 

[hibbs00]

The whole process probably took 60–90 minutes, not counting breaks. So 5–10 minutes per knife. One or two had been previously convex sharpened, and took more time to match the existing grind.

I tried to match the existing bevel if there was one, and that required feeling the feedback rather than hearing the feedback as I was outdoors with a dinner party going on around me. The SG don’t give much audible feedback anyway so I really had to match the bevel angle by feeling for the flat spot against the stone.

Since I had the SG220 with me I was tempted to thin, but thought better of it given time constraints.

I try to avoid thinning for others because they abuse knives already and with a thinner edge I figure they are more likely to damage the knife more than they already do

 

[Benuser]

I try to avoid thinning for others because they abuse knives already and with a thinner edge I figure they are more likely to damage the knife more than they already do

This is a gross misunderstanding. A thinner knife, with a relief bevel at the lowest possible angle and removed shoulders, combined with convex secondary bevels ending quite conservatively, will require less force to go through hard food and result in lower impact on the edge with board contact. The board contact is the major factor in edge degradation.

 

[hibbs00]

This is a gross misunderstanding. A thinner knife, with a relief bevel at the lowest possible angle and removed shoulders, combined with convex secondary bevels ending quite conservatively, will require less force to go through hard food and result in lower impact on the edge with board contact. The board contact is the major factor in edge degradation.

They also throw knives in the sink and open boxes, some smash through bone like it's a cleaver, scraping the edge on the cutting board etc. That's the stuff I worry about damaging the edge

 

[Benuser]

They also throw knives in the sink and open boxes, some smash through bone like it's a cleaver, scraping the edge on the cutting board etc. That's the stuff I worry about damaging the edge

A convex edge, ending at 22° or higher, is exactly the answer. The extra thickness behind the edge won't protect from abuse, but make normal use much harder, and result in heavy contact with the board. That's the way I sharpened Vics used on crappy poly boards in a welfare kitchen. Believe me, they got their share of abuse.

 

[hibbs00]

A convex edge, ending at 22° or higher, is exactly the answer. The extra thickness behind the edge won't protect from abuse, but make normal use much harder, and result in heavy contact with the board. That's the way I sharpened Vics used on crappy poly boards in a welfare kitchen. Believe me, they got their share of abuse.

I'm not sure I follow. You're saying an angle at 22 degrees won't protect the edge anyways so might as well thin the relief?

 

[Benuser]

I'm not sure I follow. You're saying an angle at 22 degrees won't protect the edge anyways so might as well thin the relief?

No. Read again. A convexed bevel ending at 22° or higher will to some degree protect from abuse. Better than e.g. a straight 15°.
What's behind the edge won't protect from abuse but allow a better performance if it's thin, resulting in less impact on the board. The main factor during normal use.

 

[hibbs00]

No. Read again. A convexed bevel ending at 22° or higher will to some degree protect from abuse. Better than e.g. a straight 15°.
What's behind the edge won't protect from abuse but allow a better performance if it's thin, resulting in less impact on the board. The main factor during normal use.

What about when it is abused. Most do abuse knives and get chips from being tossed in sinks and a drawer with other knives or any of the abuse they give it. Those chips won't be bigger if it's thinner? I don't know this for sure it's just always made sense to me and what I imagined would happen

 

[Benuser]

What about when it is abused. Most do abuse knives and get chips from being tossed in sinks and a drawer with other knives or any of the abuse they give it. Those chips won't be bigger if it's thinner? I don't know this for sure it's just always made sense to me and what I imagined would happen

Chipping? I can imagine all kind of damage, but I guess these are soft stainless, so chipping isn't likely to occur. The strongest edges are convexed ones, ending at a conservative angle. To allow them to be still performing I would like them to be as thin as possible behind the edge. I can't see how thickness behind the edge can protect a weak edge.

 

[hibbs00]

Chipping? I can imagine all kind of damage, but I guess these are soft stainless, so chipping isn't likely to occur. The strongest edges are convexed ones, ending at a conservative angle. To allow them to be still performing I would like them to be as thin as possible behind the edge. I can't see how thickness behind the edge can protect a weak edge.

I wasn't really thinking about protecting the sharpness but more about reducing the damage like the chips and dents they have when received

 

[hibbs00]

I'm looking into buying silicon carbide powder for flattening stones but I keep finding different answers online. Some will say coarse powder is for lower grit stones and finer powder for higher grit. Then some say coarse is if you have a lot of grinding or flattening to do and if you just need a touch up to use the fine powder. Which one is right??

 

[Benuser]

Quite messy. Better have an Atoma 140 — you will buy one anyway — for 400 and higher and Shapton's puck for lower grits.

 

[M1k3]

I'm looking into buying silicon carbide powder for flattening stones but I keep finding different answers online. Some will say coarse powder is for lower grit stones and finer powder for higher grit. Then some say coarse is if you have a lot of grinding or flattening to do and if you just need a touch up to use the fine powder. Which one is right??

Coarser removes more stone and leaves a rougher finish. Depends on whether you're doing bulk stone removal or just resurfacing the surface, as to which grit to use.

 

[hibbs00]

Quite messy. Better have an Atoma 140 — you will buy one anyway — for 400 and higher and Shapton's puck for lower grits.View attachment 308791

I'm looking into this shapton system. Both of those stones are kind of expensive, figure I would try this

Coarser removes more stone and leaves a rougher finish. Depends on whether you're doing bulk stone removal or just resurfacing the surface, as to which grit to use.

So if my SP220 is slightly dished I would use fine? I don't need to use the course for it?

 

[Benuser]

Resurfacing is what you do when the stone gets glazed. Dishing is a different story. We're always too late to realise. For sure, you will need the more drastic approach.

 

[hibbs00]

Resurfacing is what you do when the stone gets glazed. Dishing is a different story. We're always too late to realise. For sure, you will need the more drastic approach.

I do have a diamond 200 I think, from chef knives to go that I've been using. Either to make a quick slurry before sharpening or after a few sharpenings to make sure the stone is flat but when they do dish, it really takes a while to fix

 

[M1k3]

I'm looking into this shapton system. Both of those stones are kind of expensive, figure I would try thisView attachment 308793

So if my SP220 is slightly dished I would use fine? I don't need to use the course for it?

For the 220, I'd prefer a diamond plate to maintain flatness. If there's excessive dishing, I'd use Silicon Carbide.

 

[hibbs00]

For the 220, I'd prefer a diamond plate to maintain flatness. If there's excessive dishing, I'd use Silicon Carbide.

Would you use silicon carbide for other stones to maintain flatness?

 

[M1k3]

Would you use silicon carbide for other stones to maintain flatness?

Yes. But depends on the stone. I use a diamond plate on my synthetic stones, with the exception of Shapton Pro 120, Venev diamond and Norton Crystolon and India. Those stones are super hard and would reduce the plates life tremendously.

I also use it on my Washita's, they're super hard also.

 

[hibbs00]

Yes. But depends on the stone. I use a diamond plate on my synthetic stones, with the exception of Shapton Pro 120, Venev diamond and Norton Crystolon and India. Those stones are super hard and would reduce the plates life tremendously.

I also use it on my Washita's, they're super hard also.

I just have a SP220, SP1k and King 1k/6k combo

 

[M1k3]

I just have a SP220, SP1k and King 1k/6k combo

For those, regular maintenance flattening would be fine with a diamond plate.

 

[hibbs00]

For those, regular maintenance flattening would be fine with a diamond plate.

Ok, I guess I won't get the shapton system. Thank you

 

[Benuser]

The Shapton puck is cheap and will save your Atoma 140.

 

[hibbs00]

The Shapton puck is cheap and will save your Atoma 140.

I'll probably get the puck. I have to save up for the atoma. The ************** diamond plate will work for now also. I do notice it getting smoother though

 

[hibbs00]

I'll probably get the puck. I have to save up for the atoma. The ************** diamond plate will work for now also. I do notice it getting smoother though

The chef knives to go diamond plate* idk why it put stars haha

 

[M1k3]

I'll probably get the puck. I have to save up for the atoma. The ************** diamond plate will work for now also. I do notice it getting smoother though

It'll happen over time. You'll notice it more initially, and then it'll settle down and slowly wear out.

 

[hibbs00]

It'll happen over time. You'll notice it more initially, and then it'll settle down and slowly wear out.

It's not a bad diamond stone for being cheap.

 

[stringer]

It'll happen over time. You'll notice it more initially, and then it'll settle down and slowly wear out.

Diamonds aren't forever?

 

[Transmaster]

This is what I have used to remove the burrs from a knife blade it works very well. A watchmaker's hollow resharpable scraping tool. I have not used it on my present collection but it is what I always used on my field utility knives. You don't put any force on the blade you just let the tool run down the blade until it moves without resistance. The important thing is no pressure you let the tool do the work. With the burr removed in this fashion, you are left with a very sharp edge paper cutting edge. This tool is handy because of its small size makes it easy, with a cover, to stick in a pocket. It turns out the Kuromaku 12,000 grit whetstone I have is what I am using today does a great job. But it would still not be as handy out in the wilderness.