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Are you sure it does abrade the burr? If it only aligns the burr without abrading it's likely to create a wire edge. Very sharp until the first board contact.
Burr removal
- Thread starter hibbs00
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It actually cuts it off, not abrade. It does not work like a honing steel. If you look really close you can see a tool such as this cutting the burr off, depending on the steel you can actually see the burr curling up and falling away. The two that I use are this watchmaker's scraper and a triangular machinist's deburring tool, it looks like a small triangular file but with smooth sides.
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How about the edge behind it? I don't expect serious problems with simple carbon steels, but with some stainless, think VG-10, I would expect a severely damaged edge.
You have pointed out correctly I have never used these deburring tools on stainless steel, only carbon steel which is my preferred steel in kitchen knife blades anyway. I have never had a microscope to look at the resulting edge but it did the job when you had an Elk (for you a Wapati) to break down for packing out of the back country.
Today I would not do this with the Japanese knives I have.
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Thanks!
There is a quick way to test this for yourself. Sharpen a beater knife to get a burr, then use either a scissor blade with a sharpened edge. or another beater knife with a good edge. feel the burr the run the scissor blade or the knife down the edge with the burr, a steep angle is called for, perhaps 50º, with no pressure other than the tool. You will feel the burr cutting off. run it a second time to make sure it travels smoothly. Then test the edge. I always felt this was a quick and dirty field solution.
Here is a similar approach that should give you chilblains
Here is a similar approach that should give you chilblains
For the price of some of these diamond stones I would expect close to forever haha
I have experienced a total lack of Knife care it's more common because many have only used tough as nails soft stainless. Printed a half page list of Knife care practice. Started by saying that knife care is often a lost art in modern day society. It was effective took less explaining on my part. Also Japanese knives that cut better longer must have simple knife care practice.
People worry about AI. I'm older generation. Like hand made creative things. Younger generation have only known a world of computers & smart phones. I realized this teaching.
AI can be a useful tool in many areas of society. Of coarse it can be used for fraud by bad actors. I used to have to go to the library for pictures for many ice carving request. Since Utube have rebuilt motorcycle carburetors & many other things that couldn't do before. It's great for Do it yourself. Also a since of accomplishment.
One on one is most effective way to learn knife sharpening. That said many have learned by videos put out by experienced sharpeners. KKF is like a AI search in some ways.
Teachers know that can't stop students turning in papers printed from AI. It's a teachers challenge to create a balancing act between just copy & learning from discourse evaluating, making it their own.
People worry about AI. I'm older generation. Like hand made creative things. Younger generation have only known a world of computers & smart phones. I realized this teaching.
AI can be a useful tool in many areas of society. Of coarse it can be used for fraud by bad actors. I used to have to go to the library for pictures for many ice carving request. Since Utube have rebuilt motorcycle carburetors & many other things that couldn't do before. It's great for Do it yourself. Also a since of accomplishment.
One on one is most effective way to learn knife sharpening. That said many have learned by videos put out by experienced sharpeners. KKF is like a AI search in some ways.
Teachers know that can't stop students turning in papers printed from AI. It's a teachers challenge to create a balancing act between just copy & learning from discourse evaluating, making it their own.
TheDza
Well-Known Member
Since this is the place for all things burr, question for yall. The general principal that I read and seen is "sharpen until you develop a burr". So hypothetically if after only one pass up and down the knife I develop a burr, can I move on to a higher grit stone?
Also is there any pros vs cons of deburring in between stones instead of right at the very end?
Also is there any pros vs cons of deburring in between stones instead of right at the very end?
A burr can sometimes form before reaching the apex.
I wouldn't think either of these to be true.
The formation of a burr only tells you you have abraded and burnished some material, and while it it may be true of some edges I doubt for all. In courser grits I wouldn't be surprised if you can form a burr without removing the previous grits scratch pattern (or enough of it).
Also, leaving the burr till the end risks breaking off a significant portion of the edge (in relation to radius of the edge we are looking for) so ending up with a blunt or broken edge of a an effective radius the fine grits you are using at the end cannot fix.
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The burr does not guarantee the bevels are actually matching. Especially while thinning behind the edge you may observe a burr long before the very edge has been reached.
Use a loupe and a sharpie, especially with unknown knives. You want to make sure to have a clean bevel up to the apex, no remaining debris on top of the old edge, and aren't overlooking a microbevel.
Deburring between the stones makes sure no coarse debris hinder your work on fine stones. Yes, it does take time, especially with a first, medium-coarse stone.
Use a loupe and a sharpie, especially with unknown knives. You want to make sure to have a clean bevel up to the apex, no remaining debris on top of the old edge, and aren't overlooking a microbevel.
Deburring between the stones makes sure no coarse debris hinder your work on fine stones. Yes, it does take time, especially with a first, medium-coarse stone.
I find it best to at least minimize the burr on each stone before moving to the next but I have seen people wait until the end and get much better edges than me so I say it's just personal preference
Depends. If the knife wasn't very dull to begin and pretty thin behind the edge, you could probably move onto the next stone. I'd recommend deburring and checking that the apex was fully formed, to confirm you can move onto the next stone.
I should probably start a new thread but I bought a fairly cheap 1.4116 German steel knife online. The first one looked like it had an "s" bend in it. Sent it back and this one looks to run or bend to the right. Is this normal for boning knives?
aporigine
The slow blade penetrates the winter squash
What is that?
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aporigine
The slow blade penetrates the winter squash
I find the microbevel method not so good in my hands.
If I’m not on my last stone, I have found jointing (very lightly running the apex across the stone at or near perpendicular) to be most effective chez moi.
It required some courage to try this screamingly counterintuitive technique, but it made my job on the next stone up much easier.
I don't think that's all that counter-intuitive. I deburr by giving the edge a gentle tug through the rubber feet of my stone holder. Not a lot of deburring methods are gonna **** up your edge, unless you're going aggressive or got some of those bygone [Joke redacted out of respect, I didn't know.]
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I'm stupid. I actually meant to ask if anyone uses the jointing method to deburr
and how effective it is. Thank you!I've seen a video of Murray Carter jointing but he said to use it on the last stone. What do you do on the last stone instead?
aporigine
The slow blade penetrates the winter squash
I use edge-leading strokes at very light pressure (often less than the weight of the knife) and monitor my progress by inspecting at 20x — true 20x from a tiny loupe, not Chinese-garbage 20x. I raise the knife a teensy bit — like a degree or so — over my sharpening angle. It’s not hard to see if I am hitting the apex under magnification.I'm stupid. I actually meant to ask if anyone uses the jointing method to deburr
I've seen a video of Murray Carter jointing but he said to use it on the last stone. What do you do on the last stone instead?
I check for a clean apex and any residual burrs by doing a slow draw cut through receipt paper.
Very similar to what I do. On my last stone I will do a couple light alternating trailing passes to flip any burr I might have then I go to alternating leading passes before raising my angle about 5 degrees for 2 leading passes each side and then back to the original angle to remove any micro bevel
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Supposing we're speaking about a full sharpening of a carbon or a reasonably fine grained stainless, I deburr on every stone in the progression, making sure not to go to next one before I have reduced the burr as much as possible. I do so because I don't want the coarse burr debris to interfere with the fine edge.I'm stupid. I actually meant to ask if anyone uses the jointing method to deburr
I've seen a video of Murray Carter jointing but he said to use it on the last stone. What do you do on the last stone instead?
Very little burr will remain with the last strokes on the last stone. In fact, most work is done with the first stone. As it is no touching-up but a full sharpening involving thinning behind the edge this first stone may be quite coarse, say a SG320 or 500. I deburr with very short strokes, in sections, progressively reducing both pressure and the length of the strokes, coming from 1" to about hardly touching it. I stay with that stone until the moment where the burr only flips without getting any smaller, even with the lightest touch. Once finally done with the first stone, the next one I may shortly rub and repeat the deburring procedure, but it will be very fast. With the last stone, basically only deburring, depending on the knife or my mood or previous results I might add one feather light edge trailing stroke. As said, at this stage there isn't much to deburr. I check by stropping on my hand palm to push all possible debris to one side where the got abraded, and the other way around. With said simple steel types, longitudinal strokes rarely are necessary. One suggestion: the first stone may take considerable time. If a lot thinning has been done involving some serious pressure, don't hurry to complete the work. Both for you and the edge have some rest. I'm well aware this point of view is not generally accepted.
As for checking, I use the finest cigarette paper. Feel and listen.
I used to deburr on every stone until I saw a video of neeves knives just go to the next stone and only deburr on the last stone and got GREAT results. So I tried it and noticed the burr gradually gets smaller and smaller on higher grit stones. Then I minimize the burr on the last stone and micro bevel to remove any remaining burr. I'm not as good as neeves knives still but I would say it's still pretty damn sharp
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It depends. It's no big issue if you end your 320 deburring on a 500. But it's no good idea to jump from 700 to 6k without prior full deburring. Expect a damaged 6k edge. Won't hold.
As for microbevels: I'm a home cook. In a home setting a good edge can be maintained for a very, very long time by only touching-up. I use a Belgian Blue, or finer.
Maintaining an existing microbevel requires a very exact hitting of it. More for jig users. You don't want to broaden it or it loses its function: making possible a thin geometry the steel otherwise wouldn't hold. Removing it is no fun either.
As for microbevels: I'm a home cook. In a home setting a good edge can be maintained for a very, very long time by only touching-up. I use a Belgian Blue, or finer.
Maintaining an existing microbevel requires a very exact hitting of it. More for jig users. You don't want to broaden it or it loses its function: making possible a thin geometry the steel otherwise wouldn't hold. Removing it is no fun either.
I usually start on SP220, SP1k and then sometimes King 6k. Maybe I will go back to minimizing the burr on each stone. Just to be safe.
My micro bevel is very very light and just 2 or 3 passes each side so when I go back to the original angle my thinking is a passes should remove it or almost remove it. I could be very wrong though. I can never seem to get a really sharp edge without raising the angle. Idk why staying at the same angle doesn't work for me. If it needs a touch up I'll use a ceramic rod for a couple passes or usually grab the 1k stone and just fix the edge.
You're simply not apexing the edge, the edge doesn't last because you never created a flat edge, you keep changing angles from stone to rods and back without proper angle management.
If micro bevel my edge is great and lasts. If I try sharpening without micro beveling to remove the burr the edge never really gets that sharp. Idk how to deburr without a micro bevel. Raising the angle is what has worked best for me. Then lower the angle to, what I imagined, removes the micro bevel
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You better check if the microbevel is really gone. Sharpie, loupe. I doubt it is. If it really were, a new burr should have appeared.
