Burr removal

[Benuser]

Short in distance, not necessarily time.

If you deburr by short perpendicular strokes, you want the stroke to abrade, not raising a new burr on the opposite side. The further you get, you reduce both pressure and the length of the strokes. Until you barely touch the stone.

 

[hibbs00]

If you deburr by short perpendicular strokes, you want the stroke to abrade, not raising a new burr on the opposite side. The further you get, you reduce both pressure and the length of the strokes. Until you barely touch the stone.

What would a perpendicular stroke be? Is that what I was trying to describe?

 

[Benuser]

What would a perpendicular stroke be?

Edge leading, perpendicular to the edge, following the sharpening angle, stroke length between 1" and almost nothing.

 

[hibbs00]

Edge leading, perpendicular to the edge, following the sharpening angle, stroke length between 1" and almost nothing.

Ok, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. Thanks for giving me the name haha.
Does a perpendicular stroke do anything different that a regular edge leading pass for burr removal?

 

[Benuser]

Ok, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. Thanks for giving me the name haha.
Does a perpendicular stroke do anything different that a regular edge leading pass for burr removal?

The strokes I propose concern each one only a small section. It's not the elegant swipe that rarely touches the very edge so exactly along its entire length. It's more precise, and allows to assay the amount of contact with the stone, both by reducing pressure and by shortening the stroke.

 

[hibbs00]

The strokes I propose concern each one only a small section. It's not the elegant swipe that rarely touches the very edge so exactly along its entire length. It's more precise, and allows to assay the amount of contact with the stone, both by reducing pressure and by shortening the stroke.

Just to be clear. You're talking about what he does at the 6:27 mark correct? Sorry I'm a pain in the butt. I just really like learning all different methods

 

[Benuser]

Not really. What I do is working, edge leading, by small sections. Not one stroke along the entire length of the edge

 

[hibbs00]

Not really. What I do is working, edge leading, by small sections. Not one stroke along the entire length of the edge

Oh I think I get it now, so you basically do what he did in the video with the guided system.

 

[Benuser]

Yes. But with diminishing pressure and length of the stroke. The aim is to abrade the burr without raising a new one on the opposite side.

 

[Jovidah]

So...did anyone bring up 'cutting into a cork block' for burr removal?

 

[hibbs00]

Yes. But with diminishing pressure and length of the stroke. The aim is to abrade the burr without raising a new one on the opposite side.

Thank you. I'll have to try that. Do you go into alternating strokes after these short passes?

 

[hibbs00]

So...did anyone bring up 'cutting into a cork block' for burr removal?

Don't close-ups show it doesn't remove the burr, it just smashes the burr down?

 

[stringer]

So...did anyone bring up 'cutting into a cork block' for burr removal?

It does work fine and I always keep a couple corks around my work bench. I like liquor bottle corks better than a cork block or a wine cork. It's like they have a little built in handle and they don't fall apart as fast. I mainly use them when transitioning from very coarse stones/thinning to finishing stones. Getting rid of whatever nasty burr I can at that point saves dishing on my finishing stones. This is also when I use a leather strop when sharpening. The rough side of the leather. Same idea, I just want to clean up the edge from whatever nasty stuff has accumulated. I'm not afraid of ripping off the edge because the edge is already frazzled. I wouldn't recommend cork or wood as a final deburring technique. It does dull the knife and damage the apex at that point. Cutting felt or stropping on smooth leather or a taut rag or cardboard is better for final deburring.

 

[stringer]

Ones like this

 

[Simon082]

Don't close-ups show it doesn't remove the burr, it just smashes the burr down?

Just use your tongue, you can really feel the de burring with this method.

 

[hibbs00]

What does it take to cut paper towel like @cotedupy
Is it great burr removal? I know geometry is a big part of it but I am able to get my knives pretty sharp but can only cut 2 or 3 inches into a towel unless it's pulled taut. Then I can slice all the way down.

 

[M1k3]

What does it take to cut paper towel like @cotedupy
Is it great burr removal? I know geometry is a big part of it but I am able to get my knives pretty sharp but can only cut 2 or 3 inches into a towel unless it's pulled taut. Then I can slice all the way down.

Burr removal, thin geometry and not to high of a finishing grit, roughly in the 1-4Kish range.

 

[hibbs00]

Burr removal, thin geometry and not to high of a finishing grit, roughly in the 1-4Kish range.

Thank you. I know it will take a ton of practice, just wanted to make sure I'm practicing correctly.

 

[hibbs00]

Does anyone watch neeves knives?
If so, what do you think of his method? Create a burr on the first stone and 1 or 2 stropping passes to flip the burr before working on opposite side, keeping the same burr the whole time before finally knocking it off on the last stone? Is there some truth to the method?

 

[Vertigo]

Does anyone watch neeves knives?
If so, what do you think of his method? Create a burr on the first stone and 1 or 2 stropping passes to flip the burr before working on opposite side, keeping the same burr the whole time before finally knocking it off on the last stone? Is there some truth to the method?

I donno who that is, but I don't fk around with deburring between stones. If the edge is toast, I sharpen on coarse until I can feel an even burr along the entire length of the edge and the edge looks uniform under direct light; flip it until the same on the opposite side, then jump to the fine stone and repeat, then do edge-trailing strokes back and forth until there's nothing left of the burr that a cork or a swipe through the stone holder can't fix.

1000% sure that the actual profoundly experienced real sharpening professionals around here (who are waaaaaaay better at this than me) would say I'm doing it wrong, but it gives me an edge that I can use to show off Stupid Tomato Tricks™ and still last through a week of heavy institutional service.

 

[Redwax]

Does anyone watch neeves knives?
If so, what do you think of his method? Create a burr on the first stone and 1 or 2 stropping passes to flip the burr before working on opposite side, keeping the same burr the whole time before finally knocking it off on the last stone? Is there some truth to the method?

From talking to and seeing the results from many very very good sharpeners, I 100% believe that there are many different ways to sharpen and a lot of the important steps or details that some people talk about are not all that important. Whether you deburr fully after each stone is one of those things. Some people swear by it and some people don't bother. I've seen amazing edges from both camps.

I would say soak up all the suggestions from people and just try it. Don't take anything anyone says as gospel, especially if they say "you must do it this way"

FWIW, I tend to just minimize the burr on each stone but I don't spend much time on it. But that's just me.

 

[M1k3]

As long as you apex the edge and remove any burr, how you get there is up to the sharpener.

 

[hibbs00]

I donno who that is, but I don't fk around with deburring between stones. If the edge is toast, I sharpen on coarse until I can feel an even burr along the entire length of the edge and the edge looks uniform under direct light; flip it until the same on the opposite side, then jump to the fine stone and repeat, then do edge-trailing strokes back and forth until there's nothing left of the burr that a cork or a swipe through the stone holder can't fix.

1000% sure that the actual profoundly experienced real sharpening professionals around here (who are waaaaaaay better at this than me) would say I'm doing it wrong, but it gives me an edge that I can use to show off Stupid Tomato Tricks™ and still last through a week of heavy institutional service.

From talking to and seeing the results from many very very good sharpeners, I 100% believe that there are many different ways to sharpen and a lot of the important steps or details that some people talk about are not all that important. Whether you deburr fully after each stone is one of those things. Some people swear by it and some people don't bother. I've seen amazing edges from both camps.

I would say soak up all the suggestions from people and just try it. Don't take anything anyone says as gospel, especially if they say "you must do it this way"

FWIW, I tend to just minimize the burr on each stone but I don't spend much time on it. But that's just me.

As long as you apex the edge and remove any burr, how you get there is up to the sharpener.

Thank you, all of you. I was just curious if the burr works that way it not because my thinking is you don't keep the same burr. As soon as you've apexed, any more grinding on those sides keeps forming a burr so I would imagine whatever burr he has at the end, would be the same burr (size, strength, weakness) as any other way you could use.
That's just what I imagine. If I'm wrong, maybe he is on to something. Anyways, thank you my friends!

 

[stringer]

Thank you, all of you. I was just curious if the burr works that way it not because my thinking is you don't keep the same burr. As soon as you've apexed, any more grinding on those sides keeps forming a burr so I would imagine whatever burr he has at the end, would be the same burr (size, strength, weakness) as any other way you could use.
That's just what I imagine. If I'm wrong, maybe he is on to something. Anyways, thank you my friends!

Every minute you spend watching more videos is a minute you could have spent practicing.

 

[Simply]

Every minute you spend watching more videos is a minute you could have spent practicing.

100%. When you’ve just about mastered it is the time to look at all the subtle nuances.

 

[hibbs00]

Every minute you spend watching more videos is a minute you could have spent practicing.

That's true. I have all my knives sharpened but I just realized I don't have to wait for them to get dull to sharpen again

 

[cotedupy]

What does it take to cut paper towel like @cotedupy
Is it great burr removal? I know geometry is a big part of it but I am able to get my knives pretty sharp but can only cut 2 or 3 inches into a towel unless it's pulled taut. Then I can slice all the way down.

The answer is *exactly* what @M1k3 replied here:

Burr removal, thin geometry and not to high of a finishing grit, roughly in the 1-4Kish range.

Thin geometry leading into the edge. Hopefully that goes without saying.

A finish that is not massively low. For instance; you can get dynamite kitchen knife edges off an SG500, but if a very a clean paper towel drop is what you’re looking for - it’s gonna be difficult.

But not too high either. When cutting a tomato you want some teeth on the edge to make the initial cut through the tough skin. But once you’ve done that, then cutting the rest of the soft, watery flesh is very easy. Paper towel otoh is consistently tough all the way the through the cut, so you really definitely do need that toothiness, because you’re continually needing to make the ‘initial cut’.

Deburr well on stones. If you leave some of the deburring for a leather strop to sort out, you’ll end up with quite a refined/polished/rounded edge from the leather. Try to do it well on your final stone so you only need to strop lightly on cotton or cardboard, and you’ll preserve more of the bite of finishing on a proper abrasive. If you strop on diamond or compound loaded leather though - I imagine it’s gonna make it very easy drop paper towel. At least in theory. I don’t do that kind of thing, so can’t tell you for sure.

I personally find it easier on certain types of natural stone - Washitas, Cotis, BBW, Turkish - than synths. Though I suspect that’s simply because I use them quite a lot, and I’m quite dialled into them and how they work. Which relates to another point, put succinctly by both @M1k3 and @stringer:

As long as you apex the edge and remove any burr, how you get there is up to the sharpener.

Every minute you spend watching more videos is a minute you could have spent practicing.

Sharpening a knife is quite exceptionally simple. We’re all doing exactly the same thing, but all in slightly different ways.

Watching stuff and reading stuff can be useful and interesting (I’ve certainly learned from both Mike and Stringer). But beyond a point; you can’t read or watch your way to being better at sharpening, you just have to do it. Over and over and over again. Until you find what works best for you.

 

[Vertigo]

Sharpening a knife is quite exceptionally simple. We’re all doing exactly the same thing, but all in slightly different ways.

One of the first things our genus ever figured out was how to make dull things sharp. We've been doing it for over 2.6 million years.

The *libraries* of information and discussion surrounding it on this forum are spectacular, and should be preserved for eternity as a testament to how we can take a borderline primordial skill to it's absolute apex, but at the end of the day, yes. You just have to do it. Over and over and over again.

Return to monke.

 

[cotedupy]

What does it take to cut paper towel like @cotedupy
Is it great burr removal? I know geometry is a big part of it but I am able to get my knives pretty sharp but can only cut 2 or 3 inches into a towel unless it's pulled taut. Then I can slice all the way down.

And one other thing, on the subject of deburring…

I find that what Redwax says here is true:

From talking to and seeing the results from many very very good sharpeners, I 100% believe that there are many different ways to sharpen and a lot of the important steps or details that some people talk about are not all that important. Whether you deburr fully after each stone is one of those things. Some people swear by it and some people don't bother. I've seen amazing edges from both camps.

I would say soak up all the suggestions from people and just try it. Don't take anything anyone says as gospel, especially if they say "you must do it this way"

FWIW, I tend to just minimize the burr on each stone but I don't spend much time on it. But that's just me.

After forming an initial apex; I don’t really pay much attention to perfect ‘deburring’ on every stone in a progression, until the end.

But there are also plenty of extremely good sharpeners who do.

My suspicion is that it’s mostly a matter of nomenclature. And that the gradual reduction of pressure that I consider part of the ‘normal’ sharpening process, is the same as what other people call ‘deburring’.

The only reason I don’t call it that is because I think the term can be slightly confusing. Once you’ve initially apexed an edge, you are not subsequently trying to create big noticeable burrs on each stone, and then snapping them off. At a very small and zoomed-in level that is probably what’s happening, but I’ve found that calling it ‘deburring’ tends to confuse people.

 

[hibbs00]

And one other thing, on the subject of deburring…

I find that what Redwax says here is true:




After forming an initial apex; I don’t really pay much attention to perfect ‘deburring’ on every stone in a progression, until the end.

But there are also plenty of extremely good sharpeners who do.

My suspicion is that it’s mostly a matter of nomenclature. And that the gradual reduction of pressure that I consider part of the ‘normal’ sharpening process, is the same as what other people call ‘deburring’.

The only reason I don’t call it that is because I think the term can be slightly confusing. Once you’ve initially apexed an edge, you are not subsequently trying to create big noticeable burrs on each stone, and then snapping them off. At a very small and zoomed-in level that is probably what’s happening, but I’ve found that calling it ‘deburring’ tends to confuse people.

I pretty much form a burr on both sides, on the same stone, repeat with less pressure and then alternate leading passes. Just to minimize. Then on every stone after that I figure it's just polishing so I'll do maybe 10-20 passes and switch sides without checking for the burr. Do another 10-20 and keep repeating that until I feel I'm good on that stone. I repeat that on every stone until my last couple passes I raise the angle, very very light leading passes to deburr and then another 2 or 3 at the sharpening angle for some reason. Maybe it gets rid of the micro bevel maybe not. It's mostly out of habit at this point