CarboNext - first sharpening advice.

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wow live and learn, I thought they were 50/50 like my Mac's for some reason. Luckily I haven't had to sharpen them, just used a ceramic hone, yet so I didn't ruin that :- )
 
Dave Martell said:
I like the first drawing if the micro bevel is removed. Thinning and working both sides evenly.
Click to expand...

Benuser said:
Why would you thin the left side, it's already flat? Or do you mean to ease the shoulder?
Click to expand...


I try to do the same amount of work on both sides equally. The reason I do this is because I've seen what the fix is for steering. Since back when I first started sharpening Japanese knives I've always had customers send in gyutos that steered or twisted and ask for me to fix this problem. In almost all cases I see that a lot of sharpening/thinning was done to the right side and almost nothing done to the left. So I simply equal the balance out by removing material on the left side. By all accounts this fixes the steering/twisting problem. That's why I tell folks to work both sides evenly. yes you'll still have one side (the right) with a taller bevel (because of the blade's asymmetry) but that doesn't mean that you haven't worked an equal amount. Now should someone desire a more single sided knife that has some desire to steer then by all means go for thinning and working on the right side only.
 
Interesting point. Misono convexes its left edges as well. With a Hiromoto AS, sooner or later you have to remove cladding to free more core steel, and so the end of the left face will get slightly convexed. I must admit that reduces steering.
 
Ok, by popular demand, here are some photos of my sharpened CarboNext..... please feel free to say if anything looks like I might have done it wrong, but I am pretty pleased with it. I think the advice about #240 being too harsh was correct, but you can only really tell on the macro shots. This took me a while...but it now cuts very very nicely indeed. Need to get some polishing grade paper for the blade sometime....


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That choil comparison is really cool, you sure can take some pictures.

It looks good. If you're happy with how it cuts, then I'm happy for you.
Let us know how that acute angle holds up for you.
 
You photography is really nice, I like it. Any chance you could post a few farther out shots though?
 
stevenStefano said:
You photography is really nice, I like it. Any chance you could post a few farther out shots though?
Click to expand...

Hi Steven, thanks!
When you say further out do you mean of the whole knife? Tell me what you want to see and I am happy to post one in next day or so.

Point here was to show the edges. At the size these reproduce on the page, a "full-length" shot would pretty much just look like a.n.other CarboNext (ie see it here!) . Actually, looking at that again, what I have done ain't going to compare well to the shiny OOTB CN. Apart from the edge, of course, which is a lot better.
 
I was just having a look at that choil shot in photoshop, and I make it that the edge angle is about 17*degrees. Assuming it is consistentish all along the blade, that seems awfully low like 8/9*deg on each side. Is that going to hold or is it too extreme?
 
I hope that you never get your hands on something that I've worked on. Damn pictures show too much! :D
 
Dave Martell said:
I hope that you never get your hands on something that I've worked on. Damn pictures show too much! :D
Click to expand...

I could blackmail you for free knives for life, or post macro shots of the blades....

:viking:

Whole thing does need a bit of a polish though. It seems even if I am extremely careful I put scratches in it. I had odd looping scratches on the blade about 1cm from the edge, then realised it was my fingers moving up and down the surface, rubbing in wet grit from the stones.... how do you avoid that? Or do you just have to accept it, and polish it out after the fact?

So what do you reckon to my first sharpening attempt, Dave?
 
rdpx said:
I was just having a look at that choil shot in photoshop, and I make it that the edge angle is about 17*degrees. Assuming it is consistentish all along the blade, that seems awfully low like 8/9*deg on each side. Is that going to hold or is it too extreme?
Click to expand...
I don't know what you where able to see on your screen, but I guess you haven't actually seen the very edge.
 
Really impressive photos, and your first sharpening job looks better than mine. I'm far from an expert on technique, so I'll let others provide more constructive feedback.
 
Thanks Don.

Benuser said:
I don't know what you where able to see on your screen, but I guess you haven't actually seen the very edge.
Click to expand...

This is as big as it gets on my screen, Bernard...

C8eGDWq.jpg
 
Very nice pic, great geometry, still hard to say though. At 5mm from the edge, thickness is some 0.5mm. The thickness of the very edge is in the same order as aluminium foil -- 10 micron. So, I remain a little sceptic about viewing the very edge.
What angles have you sharpened at?
If you would find your edge to be too fragile, you may add a microbevel on the right side, see Jon Broida's video.

P.S. With free hand sharpening every bevel will end slightly convexed.
 
A trick to verify the angle: slide your flat blade on a board or a piece of leather, and lift the spine till the edge bites. Your sharpening angle is a few degree lower. Try with both sides.
 
nice edge! any chip prone issue ?? It look like too fragile for a all-around gyuto......try to cut or chop some hard root veg.
 
Dave Martell said:
I try to do the same amount of work on both sides equally. The reason I do this is because I've seen what the fix is for steering. Since back when I first started sharpening Japanese knives I've always had customers send in gyutos that steered or twisted and ask for me to fix this problem. In almost all cases I see that a lot of sharpening/thinning was done to the right side and almost nothing done to the left. So I simply equal the balance out by removing material on the left side. By all accounts this fixes the steering/twisting problem. That's why I tell folks to work both sides evenly. yes you'll still have one side (the right) with a taller bevel (because of the blade's asymmetry) but that doesn't mean that you haven't worked an equal amount. Now should someone desire a more single sided knife that has some desire to steer then by all means go for thinning and working on the right side only.
Click to expand...

This style of sharpening works for me as well. It just makes sense.
 
I'm either brilliant, stupid or somewhere in the middle, but all I do is sharpen until a burr is created, flip it back and forth, deburr, repeat at different levels, until desired sharpness is achieved. Don't over complicate things.
 
what lefty said

=D

i've kinda believe what boar d laze (the resident know it all on another forum) says about 60/40 bevels, as the carbonext is 60/40....

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html

that it shouldn't really bother a lefty or a righty.

so you can pretty much sharpen it 50/50 for the meantime without much problems.


but when you do get to the point that you need to thin the knife, then problems will start showing. such as steering.

thinning it will solve that. thinning it properly that is. i can't tell you how as i haven't gotten to that point yet with japanese knives that i need to thin it down because i am getting into steering problems.

of course i have thinned a knife and i have done it a few times but not a lot with asymmetric knives. only with my aritsugu kyoto that was bought used and was already thinned by the previous owner then was neglected and then sold to me. i thinned it a little just to clean up the blade face coz it was pretty beat up and enough to thin up the already barely visible shoulder.
 
Lefty said:
I'm either brilliant, stupid or somewhere in the middle, but all I do is sharpen until a burr is created, flip it back and forth, deburr, repeat at different levels, until desired sharpness is achieved. Don't over complicate things.
Click to expand...

Sounds good lefty,these days I kick in a final bevel on a 4 or 5K.It's more durable edge & makes a blended convex bevel which I find works well for kitchen knives.:)
 
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