Cheap new knives test and recommend thread

[blokey]

While I'm happy to recommend Victorinox and Kiwi to anyone who need some cheap knives, some recent discussion got me thinking, since there are many new makers or old makers which got ignored due to they only have lower end lines, be it from Yangjiang China or Seki Japan or some small shop in Europe or NA/SA. Vics are good knife but their steel is hardly the best in a world where better knife steel is getting cheaper and cheaper, so I figured why not start a thread to pool our experience with cheaper lines of knives which I can recommend to family and friends who don't want spent too much. I know there's some anomity towards AliExpress stuff due to all the bad HT and ****** geomtry, but there's been alot of improvement in the past few years and it could be interesting to see some brands actually make knives competitive in international market not just because they are cheap. (Kamikoto still sucks tho)
All that said let's start with a disappointment, I've heard some good things about Tuo knives, they actually have a factory in China, unlike some brands just take OEM and slap their labels. I got the Tuo Ring Aus-8 to test it out, well it just don't work well, the edge is somewhat sharp can could impress someone who doesn't know better, but the actually geomtry is just piece of thin steel with an edge. The cutting performence is what you would expect, it got all the disadvantage of a flat ground thin knife and none of the advantage of a actual thin edge, it stucks in cabbage, requires ungodly amount of force to actually split a carrot. The handle is loose and the ring on it moves around. Can't recommend at $30.

 

[Jovidah]

One of the problems with some of the cheaper stuff is the inconsistency. This is how Misen ended up with knives that originally might have been good, but a few years down the road ended up having a HRC of 52. I had similar experiences with some cheap OEM knives; the first knife I bought happened to be good...then when I recommended it to others the ones they got were just all over the place; terrible grinds, botched heat treatments... the knives just varied wildly within the same series.

My sample size is too small to make any definitive statements about this, but I'm under the impression that this is less of a problem in the cheaper entry level J-knives.
For western knives I think Arcos is worth a look (price level and steel arguably similar to Victorinox but at least it looks a lot better), but the factory edges were a mess - other than that the few I had were quite decent actually.

 

[daddy yo yo]

Knives from China? No, thank you! The usual CCK (or maybe 1 or 2 other cleavers) is an exception to that rule.

 

[blokey]

And a positive one, this my roommate's Xinzuo 440C small cleaver which I bought as a gift, the HT on the 440C is on the softer side but still better than most cheaper stuff, the grind is good tho not as thin as it looks in the choil. A CCK will easily out cut it, so does all my other rectangles, but at $30 it's a good buy. The handle is modeled after Seki stuff and the balance is ok.

 

[blokey]

One of the problems with some of the cheaper stuff is the inconsistency. This is how Misen ended up with knives that originally might have been good, but a few years down the road ended up having a HRC of 52. I had similar experiences with some cheap OEM knives; the first knife I bought happened to be good...then when I recommended it to others the ones they got were just all over the place; terrible grinds, botched heat treatments... the knives just varied wildly within the same series.

My sample size is too small to make any definitive statements about this, but I'm under the impression that this is less of a problem in the cheaper entry level J-knives.
For western knives I think Arcos is worth a look (price level and steel arguably similar to Victorinox but at least it looks a lot better), but the factory edges were a mess - other than that the few I had were quite decent actually.

That's true, and one of the reason why I started this thread, there's alot of manufacturers, on one hand you got Misen ,Dalstrong and all the VG10 stuff which are terrible, and on the other hand Shibazi, Dengjia did a decent job for the mass market. So I think it is worth a while to pool our experience to get a better picture.
On the European side I've heard good thing about Pallares.
https://bernalcutlery.com/collections/pallares

 

[blokey]

Knives from China? No, thank you! The usual CCK (or maybe 1 or 2 other cleavers) is an exception to that rule.

TBH I think it is worthwhile investigation, I have very positive experience with custom makers in China (though it cost over $500 so not cheap...), if people are willing to spend $70 on knives by couple Vietnamese dudes sitting around the forge why not see other possibilities? Tho I'm certainly against buying random 67 layer Damascus **** online.

 

[esoo]

Was never really happy with either of these:
https://www.tojiro-japan.com/produc...rogami-steel-santoku-165mm-grinding-finished/https://www.tojiro-japan.com/produc...irogami-steel-nakiri-165mm-grinding-finished/
Cladding is basically down to edge on both sides. Core shirogami (which version who know, likely 3), seems soft as I can them to take a decent edge, but dulls fairly fast.

They were cheap when I bought them years ago off ebay (I think I spent under $100CAD for both of them combined). Daughter and wife love them, so can't get rid of them.

 

[coxhaus]

Well, I think the Henckels 4star and 5star knives are better than the Victorinox knives. The Henckels must be made in Germany. There are a lot of junk Henckels out there that I would not buy. The Henckels are cheap on eBay.
I bought this 10-inch chefs knife off eBay for $17.50.

 

[tostadas]

This makes me curious now how the Dao Vua 52100 stuff is. Their price point is similar to CCK, but from what some folks have said in the past, their HT was questionable. And in particular for 52100, which is more sensitive to heat when forging than other common steels, I really wonder about the quality of their newest offerings.

 

[blokey]

Another Xinzuo 8 inch chef knife, after seeing some people saying on reddit how Xinzuo knives would beat Vics on all front I just have to try, around $50 with taxes. If you are going after Damascus you are going to be disappointed, the pattern is very feint, almost invisible unless you look closely, the grind is muh, better than Tuo but worse than their cleaver, the actual performence is shown in the video, comparing with one of my Santoku and slightly thinned Vic.

 

[blokey]

A Hezhen, which suppose to be the higher end label of Xinzuo. Honestly it doesnt look bad, the packaging proudly says Made in China, not pretending to be something else. The handle is ok, fit&finish is on par with its $60 price point. The blade itself is somewhat wide bevel, much better than the Xinzuo yesterday, still didn’t out cut Vnox, but with some thining it should be workable. The steel 10Cr15CoMoV is just Chinese VG10, with proper HT it should be a good hard steel. The only problem I see is with little more you are going to the Tojiro DP and Fujiwara Kanefusa range which performs out of the box. It does has the wa handle and hammer thing going tho. No distal taper what so ever, but it’s normal in the price range. Would I buy it myself? No, but if someone want a wa handle knife to look at probably not bad, or just want a project knife to play with. (It’s not gonna be worse than Dao Vua)

 

[IsoJ]

That's true, and one of the reason why I started this thread, there's alot of manufacturers, on one hand you got Misen ,Dalstrong and all the VG10 stuff which are terrible, and on the other hand Shibazi, Dengjia did a decent job for the mass market. So I think it is worth a while to pool our experience to get a better picture.
On the European side I've heard good thing about Pallares.
https://bernalcutlery.com/collections/pallares

I can recommend the Pallares. I have couple of those and the HT is very good. Only downsize is that they don't offer "classic" or gyuto profile but for the price you can't have it all I guess.

 

[tostadas]

A Hezhen, which suppose to be the higher end label of Xinzuo. Honestly it doesnt look bad, the packaging proudly says Made in China, not pretending to be something else. The handle is ok, fit&finish is on par with its $60 price point. The blade itself is somewhat wide bevel, much better than the Xinzuo yesterday, still didn’t out cut Vnox, but with some thining it should be workable. The steel 10Cr15CoMoV is just Chinese VG10, with proper HT it should be a good hard steel. The only problem I see is with little more you are going to the Tojiro DP and Fujiwara Kanefusa range which performs out of the box. It does has the wa handle and hammer thing going tho. No distal taper what so ever, but it’s normal in the price range. Would I buy it myself? No, but if someone want a wa handle knife to look at probably not bad, or just want a project knife to play with. (It’s not gonna be worse than Dao Vua)
View attachment 209316View attachment 209313View attachment 209314View attachment 209315

This one reminds me of the "forge to table" brand of knives

 

[Benuser]

Couldn't agree more on the carbons by Pallarès Solsona. C60 @ 60Rc. They will need some work around the edge and behind, though. If one is looking for a real gyuto, the 210mm Kanetsune is an interesting one: great handle, excellent carbon steel, good F&F, except for the crazy chisel factory edge. I paid €55. Right-handers only.

 

[blokey]

This one reminds me of the "forge to table" brand of knives

Probably same OEM

 

[blokey]

Read this thread on reddit, , quite different conclusion from main, the choil on dongsun looks like xinzuo which honestly doesn't cut well at all, not sure if his experience is different, I'd rather have a flat grind than a half ass convex. The edge retention test of his is bit werid, not sure how VG10 lasted less than half of Aus10 consider their composition, even with Tojiro's questionable ht they still should be close.

 

[blokey]

He posted another review so I'm gonna get some Dongsun and test it out, it's nice people test stuffs but his method is bit dubious. He kind confuse sharpness, hardness and wear resistance, the glassware testing method is kind strange since it is much harder than knife steel it will likely cause more rolling than wear, and neglect high wear resistant steel at similar HRC. And given AUS-10 is basically AEB-H derivative i don't see how it will last longer than VG-10 unless Tojiro absolutly butcher the HT. (Not impossible tho) The Dongsun probably won't arrive til April.

 

[blokey]

One interesting thing, in Dongsun's Aliexpress store they also sell knives made by Bai Nian Li/ 百年利, which is another medium sized cleaver manufacturers in China, they might be related. Tho DongSun's TaoBao store is very small, 2482 followers, for comparison the Store i bought Xi Gong Zi, another small seller selling professional knives include Tojiro stuff have more than 15,000 followers. Maybe they are just focus on oversea market.

 

[Callipo]

If you are going after Damascus you are going to be disappointed, the pattern is very feint, almost invisible unless you look closely

That is because the knife is not Damascus laminated. Xinzuo's Lan Series has each knife in two versions. A cheaper one, which you have shown, with a 10Cr15CoMoV core, sandblasted cladding and a pakkawood handle. And the more expensive one with 14Cr14MoVNb core, Damascus cladding and an olive wood handle. I cannot find the source anymore, but your knife was favorably reviewed. On basis of this review, I recommended it to a friend who was coming back from China and I was also a bit disappointed when I saw the grind in real life. In China this knife goes for 20$ btw.
I am looking forward to your assessment of the Dongsun knife, the reddit post put it on my radar as well

 

[blokey]

That is because the knife is not Damascus laminated. Xinzuo's Lan Series has each knife in two versions. A cheaper one, which you have shown, with a 10Cr15CoMoV core, sandblasted cladding and a pakkawood handle. And the more expensive one with 14Cr14MoVNb core, Damascus cladding and an olive wood handle. I cannot find the source anymore, but your knife was favorably reviewed. On basis of this review, I recommended it to a friend who was coming back from China and I was also a bit disappointed when I saw the grind in real life. In China this knife goes for 20$ btw.
I am looking forward to your assessment of the Dongsun knife, the reddit post put it on my radar as well

It is really laminated, just not etched properly, both their Chinese source on Taobao and English literature suggested so. Since I am Chinese I can just contact them there. This particular knife is not on sale in their Taobao or JD store, since it is not following the 60 degree tip regulation here.

 

[blokey]

BTW if your friends is still in China there's some good stuff that's not available here on Taobao. I have tried 熙公子/Xi Gong Zi and 傅一刀/Fu Yi Dao cleavers, they are good, bit more expensive than big brand stuff but the grind is much better.

 

[Callipo]

Yes it is laminated, just not with Damascus steel. At least the English description says so, see attached images for a comparison, and I see no pattern on it in real life, other than variations from sandblasting. Your knife says "3-layer composite steel". Thanks for the tip for good cleavers. Regrettably, traveling in China with the knife was not easy with all the train security checks and he will not bring another knife from China.

 

[Neutri]

My dad is going to china soon, I'll ask him to get me a cck cleaver

BTW if your friends is still in China there's some good stuff that's not available here on Taobao. I have tried 熙公子/Xi Gong Zi and 傅一刀/Fu Yi Dao cleavers, they are good, bit more expensive than big brand stuff but the grind is much better.

 

[blokey]

Yes it is laminated, just not with Damascus steel. At least the English description says so, see attached images for a comparison, and I see no pattern on it in real life, other than variations from sandblasting. Your knife says "3-layer composite steel". Thanks for the tip for good cleavers. Regrettably, traveling in China with the knife was not easy with all the train security checks and he will not bring another knife from China.

Looks I'm mistaken then. Tho 3-layer composite steel is just marketing term for san mai, they are the same thing.

My dad is going to china soon, I'll ask him to get me a cck cleaver

If you want some high end stuff for fun, go for Xinguo, his taobao store is 伯生活. Tho I don't think he has anything available off the shelf now.

 

[Neutri]

If you want some high end stuff for fun, go for Xinguo, his taobao store is 伯生活. Tho I don't think he has anything available off the shelf now.

Even for cleavers? I can see praises about CCK cleavers everywhere so I thought they'd be awesome

 

[blokey]

Even for cleavers? I can see praises about CCK cleavers everywhere so I thought they'd be awesome

CCKs are good, be aware of counterfeits on Taobao tho, the official store is the physical one in Hongkong, the only other one is in Toronto Canada, they have no webstore, someone in Guangdong registered their brand in Mainland China and sell woks, they are not related. Xinguo cleavers are good, but the wait is probably gonna be at least 6 month now. Check out the two other brand I posted. Another one I would check on TaoBao is 石字刀/Shi Zi Dao, rural smiths forged stainless cladded 52100, very cheap and pretty good, need some work but can be awesome.

 

[drrayeye]

That is because the knife is not Damascus laminated. Xinzuo's Lan Series has each knife in two versions. A cheaper one, which you have shown, with a 10Cr15CoMoV core, sandblasted cladding and a pakkawood handle. And the more expensive one with 14Cr14MoVNb core, Damascus cladding and an olive wood handle. I cannot find the source anymore, but your knife was favorably reviewed. On basis of this review, I recommended it to a friend who was coming back from China and I was also a bit disappointed when I saw the grind in real life. In China this knife goes for 20$ btw.
I am looking forward to your assessment of the Dongsun knife, the reddit post put it on my radar as well

Good points!

I have purchased three Xinzao kitchen knives: a wide Nakiri ( or 165X65 cleaver), a 6" petty knife, and a dual core 110 layer deba. None of them really fit with the "cheap knife" designation in this thread. My 67 layer hammered wide nakiri and petty knife have a core of Chinese vg-10. I've compared the wide Nakiri to my Shun Kanso 7" utility knife, and the Petty to my 6" Shun Classic vg-10 utility. My dual core has the Chinese VTG-10 coupled with another Chinese steel--no core--and a very interesting damascus pattern.

There are Zinzao factory stores at AliExpress and AliBaba for wholesale. There are many lines of knives in quite different price ranges. See the AliBaba site:

https://xinzuo.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.shop_index.88.28.74c0b1aafChwpD
In addition to the Chinese steels, they use European and Japanese powder steels

 

[coxhaus]

My only experience with China made knives was a couple of Gerber China made pocketknives that were not very good.

 

[Bolek]

There are (was ?) many cheap J knives better than what I can see on aliexpress. To name a few I own :
TANAKA Damascus BLUE steel #2 "NAKIRI" 165mm / HOU wood 40$

Same price for a V10 santoku.
Zakuri bleu 2 gyuto 240 65$,
....

 

[blokey]

There are (was ?) many cheap J knives better than what I can see on aliexpress. To name a few I own :
TANAKA Damascus BLUE steel #2 "NAKIRI" 165mm / HOU wood 40$

View attachment 230414
Same price for a V10 santoku.
Zakuri bleu 2 gyuto 240 65$,
....

Zakuri and alot of Tosa knives in general are really good. Can you still find Shigeki Tanaka at that price? Even at his current price they are still really good deals.