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Email bot time...
Flipper alert
- Thread starter RDalman
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tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
Maybe they lost the rectangular kono stamp
myguidingmoonlight
Senior Member
Considering the stamp is crooked to the spine 1/4 of the time I'd rather they ditch it.
NotAddictedYet
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So I decided I really want this super sought after knife. I subscribe to BST list and scours every email notification and hey a listing pops up. I get lucky beating everybody to the punch (SPF in 10 minutes) and spend the dough. Great. Then six months later, well guess I didn't really want it after all, without even using it once. It's time to sell it but let me add on the fees and shipping so I can recoupe all my money .
So now it's the same knife for sale to everybody but just 100$ more expensive than six months ago. I wouldn't like this version of myself very much.
To be clear, I don't think this is exactly flipperish behavior. Situations shift, minds change, I get it, fair is fair.
But it just saddens me that grail knives gets their price driven up like this. The more owners the knife goes through, somehow it become more expensive and harder for people who just wanted to have and keep (and enjoy?) the knife but couldn't get one. Kinda goes against the kindred spirit we have going on here at KKF IMHO.
Rant over.
So now it's the same knife for sale to everybody but just 100$ more expensive than six months ago. I wouldn't like this version of myself very much.
To be clear, I don't think this is exactly flipperish behavior. Situations shift, minds change, I get it, fair is fair.
But it just saddens me that grail knives gets their price driven up like this. The more owners the knife goes through, somehow it become more expensive and harder for people who just wanted to have and keep (and enjoy?) the knife but couldn't get one. Kinda goes against the kindred spirit we have going on here at KKF IMHO.
Rant over.
Try being in a country where you get to pay taxes inbound. And then the seller ships it UPS standard. That can add 30%+ to the price. Part of the reason I'm slowly stopping playing the game.
As I said before, USPS is the only real winner lol
In all seriousness, less desirable knives go through the same process and get cheaper and cheaper. If the price keeps going down with more owners, a knife can get to a place it reaches a floor price. If a knife keeps going up, it can also reach a ceiling price. If a Yanick starts at $1,500, after 3 owners, it will probably reach $1,800ish and likely hard to sell. If a Yanick started at $1,100, the first person can immediately mark it up to $1,500 assuming that’s the fair market value people are easily willing to buy at or multiple more “community friendly” owners can slowly mark the knife up to $1,500. No opinions here, but that’s my observation of how economically this game works. Frankly, that’s how most tangible goods sales work in the market unless it is state controlled. People also hate state control and harsh regulatory environment.
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ya, imagine some hot knife retails for 1k and your costs are $1300+ into it, so you sell for $1400 shipped... is $400 a big premium and is it a flip? yes and yes, but do you make profit on the flip?> no. both of those things can be true and I feel like (and this is likely not a very popular opinion) if you're selling it on a 2ndary market, then asking retail + your costs to get it, is FINE, but expecting to get it, is likely not that reasonable (unless the knife has huge demand and is impossible to find otherwise).
i think this sentiment has been discussed here many many times and opinions very from agreeing with you + even going further, so completely disagreeing with you
IMO, there is no right or wrong answer, the answer is only what's right for you and what are you willing to do about it.
NotAddictedYet
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It's an unfortunate situation but I personally am ok with it as long as you used it, it's all good. Personally also winding down the game, just not much desire to play anymore.
Not trying to argue econ here, supply and demand (and wallet depth) always rules and they aint gonna care about anyone's feelings.
Personally though, I like to think KKF as a community of knife lovers. If you rush the line and bought a knife that you love but also you know someone else would love to have, you got lucky. If you used the knife, decide it wasn't for me, catch and release and recoupe some fees, again I am fine with that.
But if you leave it in the box not even using it once, and turn around sell it later for a higher price, mark up or not, then that knife did not serve any "knife lover" purpose during your tenure except making itself more expensive. It could have gone to a different home where someone would actually enjoy the knife for what it is. It would drive this red hot market (for some knives, not all) even crazier and it wouldn't sit right with me if I did it.
Although this is my personal feeling that's been brewing for a while, it's not meant to be a personal attack nor am I trying to impose this opinion on anyone.
But that's not a flip. Flipping means you are buying it with the intention to sell it later on and make a profit. So with knives you usually don't use them so their worth doesn't decrease
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I think most knives worth decrease or increase is based on demand of that knife, maker, hype... and rarely actual performance (because that is very subjective part of the knife).
are there people who are buying with the intention of flipping? absolutely. are there many people who are buying with the intention of using? absolutely, but there are also many who are buying cause they have an opportunity and who know it's a low risk proposition if they want to use it, great, sell it, they may make $ or not lose $.
no one can say for certain if someone is strictly buying for flipping, even if every sign is there, because they cannot mind read, obviously, so while you're right, sometimes it's obviously, but then again a $1000 knive that now sells $1400 to cover their import fees and custom fees and any other fees they incurred in buying the knife, can also qualify as a flip due to 40% increase from the retail price.
I agree with most of what you said but it's still not a flip. If you have 1400 in it and selling it for 1400 it's not a flip. First person bought it for 1000 and sold it for 1400, so making 400 profit isn't also necessarily a flipper. He might just have gotten lucky when deciding to sell it since the market value increased over the years. There needs to be some intention.
I’ll sometimes try to include shipping costs I paid in resale, but often not. I see shipping as the cost of doing business. Like a pass around knife, I get to “rent” a cool knife for a week for only the cost of shipping.
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that I agree with, it's not a flip, per say, BUT, it sure seems like it. I remember seeing 1 knife 1-2 years ago, the person was very honest about it, that they paid about $800 for it but were selling for close to $1200, because they paid over $100 shipping, and rest were other duties. Obviously, how knives are shipped is up to the seller or buyer or both (it depends but a longer topic of discussion) and same could be said about import duties (for individual sellers, for example) but, the way that sale went, as in the wording the person used when asking almost 40% more for the knife, left me not feeling good about it - almost kinda like. because "i had these fees incurred and if you want this knife that I held for a year or 2, then you pay them..."
Totally get that but would refrain from calling something a flip, or flipping when it's not.
If I buy something from Australia, shipping will be like $75 depending on exchange rate. Then depending on Customs it will be 30% more(tax and custom duties). In Germany it is (value of product + shipping)x1.3. So let's say I would want to sell my Kippington I would have to demand way more than the usual price of around $650. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy that knife at a higher than usual price. Prefer selling stuff to Europeans since Americans often times don't get that. I also have to add shipping which is around $65 to the US plus PayPal fees, exchange fees and my fees for forcing me to make PayPal more money. Depending on transaction I will reduce the price if there won't be fees.
So for Europeans the market feels smaller, we pay more, have lesser opportunities and in general lose more money selling stuff. Probably also one of the reasons I don't sell too much stuff but am also only buying stuff I enjoy, want to use and keep.
If I buy something from Australia, shipping will be like $75 depending on exchange rate. Then depending on Customs it will be 30% more(tax and custom duties). In Germany it is (value of product + shipping)x1.3. So let's say I would want to sell my Kippington I would have to demand way more than the usual price of around $650. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy that knife at a higher than usual price. Prefer selling stuff to Europeans since Americans often times don't get that. I also have to add shipping which is around $65 to the US plus PayPal fees, exchange fees and my fees for forcing me to make PayPal more money. Depending on transaction I will reduce the price if there won't be fees.
So for Europeans the market feels smaller, we pay more, have lesser opportunities and in general lose more money selling stuff. Probably also one of the reasons I don't sell too much stuff but am also only buying stuff I enjoy, want to use and keep.
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right, and I wouldn't call anyone out for flipping, because people can and should charge whatever they want for the product they have. i was merely having a balanced argument (imo) to the perception of things.
