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Email bot time...
Flipper alert
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tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
Maybe they lost the rectangular kono stamp
myguidingmoonlight
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Considering the stamp is crooked to the spine 1/4 of the time I'd rather they ditch it.
NotAddictedYet
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So I decided I really want this super sought after knife. I subscribe to BST list and scours every email notification and hey a listing pops up. I get lucky beating everybody to the punch (SPF in 10 minutes) and spend the dough. Great. Then six months later, well guess I didn't really want it after all, without even using it once. It's time to sell it but let me add on the fees and shipping so I can recoupe all my money .
So now it's the same knife for sale to everybody but just 100$ more expensive than six months ago. I wouldn't like this version of myself very much.
To be clear, I don't think this is exactly flipperish behavior. Situations shift, minds change, I get it, fair is fair.
But it just saddens me that grail knives gets their price driven up like this. The more owners the knife goes through, somehow it become more expensive and harder for people who just wanted to have and keep (and enjoy?) the knife but couldn't get one. Kinda goes against the kindred spirit we have going on here at KKF IMHO.
Rant over.
So now it's the same knife for sale to everybody but just 100$ more expensive than six months ago. I wouldn't like this version of myself very much.
To be clear, I don't think this is exactly flipperish behavior. Situations shift, minds change, I get it, fair is fair.
But it just saddens me that grail knives gets their price driven up like this. The more owners the knife goes through, somehow it become more expensive and harder for people who just wanted to have and keep (and enjoy?) the knife but couldn't get one. Kinda goes against the kindred spirit we have going on here at KKF IMHO.
Rant over.
Try being in a country where you get to pay taxes inbound. And then the seller ships it UPS standard. That can add 30%+ to the price. Part of the reason I'm slowly stopping playing the game.
As I said before, USPS is the only real winner lol
In all seriousness, less desirable knives go through the same process and get cheaper and cheaper. If the price keeps going down with more owners, a knife can get to a place it reaches a floor price. If a knife keeps going up, it can also reach a ceiling price. If a Yanick starts at $1,500, after 3 owners, it will probably reach $1,800ish and likely hard to sell. If a Yanick started at $1,100, the first person can immediately mark it up to $1,500 assuming that’s the fair market value people are easily willing to buy at or multiple more “community friendly” owners can slowly mark the knife up to $1,500. No opinions here, but that’s my observation of how economically this game works. Frankly, that’s how most tangible goods sales work in the market unless it is state controlled. People also hate state control and harsh regulatory environment.
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ya, imagine some hot knife retails for 1k and your costs are $1300+ into it, so you sell for $1400 shipped... is $400 a big premium and is it a flip? yes and yes, but do you make profit on the flip?> no. both of those things can be true and I feel like (and this is likely not a very popular opinion) if you're selling it on a 2ndary market, then asking retail + your costs to get it, is FINE, but expecting to get it, is likely not that reasonable (unless the knife has huge demand and is impossible to find otherwise).
i think this sentiment has been discussed here many many times and opinions very from agreeing with you + even going further, so completely disagreeing with you
IMO, there is no right or wrong answer, the answer is only what's right for you and what are you willing to do about it.
NotAddictedYet
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It's an unfortunate situation but I personally am ok with it as long as you used it, it's all good. Personally also winding down the game, just not much desire to play anymore.
Not trying to argue econ here, supply and demand (and wallet depth) always rules and they aint gonna care about anyone's feelings.
Personally though, I like to think KKF as a community of knife lovers. If you rush the line and bought a knife that you love but also you know someone else would love to have, you got lucky. If you used the knife, decide it wasn't for me, catch and release and recoupe some fees, again I am fine with that.
But if you leave it in the box not even using it once, and turn around sell it later for a higher price, mark up or not, then that knife did not serve any "knife lover" purpose during your tenure except making itself more expensive. It could have gone to a different home where someone would actually enjoy the knife for what it is. It would drive this red hot market (for some knives, not all) even crazier and it wouldn't sit right with me if I did it.
Although this is my personal feeling that's been brewing for a while, it's not meant to be a personal attack nor am I trying to impose this opinion on anyone.
But that's not a flip. Flipping means you are buying it with the intention to sell it later on and make a profit. So with knives you usually don't use them so their worth doesn't decrease
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I think most knives worth decrease or increase is based on demand of that knife, maker, hype... and rarely actual performance (because that is very subjective part of the knife).
are there people who are buying with the intention of flipping? absolutely. are there many people who are buying with the intention of using? absolutely, but there are also many who are buying cause they have an opportunity and who know it's a low risk proposition if they want to use it, great, sell it, they may make $ or not lose $.
no one can say for certain if someone is strictly buying for flipping, even if every sign is there, because they cannot mind read, obviously, so while you're right, sometimes it's obviously, but then again a $1000 knive that now sells $1400 to cover their import fees and custom fees and any other fees they incurred in buying the knife, can also qualify as a flip due to 40% increase from the retail price.
I agree with most of what you said but it's still not a flip. If you have 1400 in it and selling it for 1400 it's not a flip. First person bought it for 1000 and sold it for 1400, so making 400 profit isn't also necessarily a flipper. He might just have gotten lucky when deciding to sell it since the market value increased over the years. There needs to be some intention.
I’ll sometimes try to include shipping costs I paid in resale, but often not. I see shipping as the cost of doing business. Like a pass around knife, I get to “rent” a cool knife for a week for only the cost of shipping.
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that I agree with, it's not a flip, per say, BUT, it sure seems like it. I remember seeing 1 knife 1-2 years ago, the person was very honest about it, that they paid about $800 for it but were selling for close to $1200, because they paid over $100 shipping, and rest were other duties. Obviously, how knives are shipped is up to the seller or buyer or both (it depends but a longer topic of discussion) and same could be said about import duties (for individual sellers, for example) but, the way that sale went, as in the wording the person used when asking almost 40% more for the knife, left me not feeling good about it - almost kinda like. because "i had these fees incurred and if you want this knife that I held for a year or 2, then you pay them..."
Totally get that but would refrain from calling something a flip, or flipping when it's not.
If I buy something from Australia, shipping will be like $75 depending on exchange rate. Then depending on Customs it will be 30% more(tax and custom duties). In Germany it is (value of product + shipping)x1.3. So let's say I would want to sell my Kippington I would have to demand way more than the usual price of around $650. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy that knife at a higher than usual price. Prefer selling stuff to Europeans since Americans often times don't get that. I also have to add shipping which is around $65 to the US plus PayPal fees, exchange fees and my fees for forcing me to make PayPal more money. Depending on transaction I will reduce the price if there won't be fees.
So for Europeans the market feels smaller, we pay more, have lesser opportunities and in general lose more money selling stuff. Probably also one of the reasons I don't sell too much stuff but am also only buying stuff I enjoy, want to use and keep.
If I buy something from Australia, shipping will be like $75 depending on exchange rate. Then depending on Customs it will be 30% more(tax and custom duties). In Germany it is (value of product + shipping)x1.3. So let's say I would want to sell my Kippington I would have to demand way more than the usual price of around $650. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy that knife at a higher than usual price. Prefer selling stuff to Europeans since Americans often times don't get that. I also have to add shipping which is around $65 to the US plus PayPal fees, exchange fees and my fees for forcing me to make PayPal more money. Depending on transaction I will reduce the price if there won't be fees.
So for Europeans the market feels smaller, we pay more, have lesser opportunities and in general lose more money selling stuff. Probably also one of the reasons I don't sell too much stuff but am also only buying stuff I enjoy, want to use and keep.
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right, and I wouldn't call anyone out for flipping, because people can and should charge whatever they want for the product they have. i was merely having a balanced argument (imo) to the perception of things.
Corradobrit1
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In case anyone is interested, the Xerxes masterpiece was being offered concurrently for 1800 Euro on the German Knife Forum with possibly a further 200 Euro discount vs the 2500 Euro here. Seller has since deleted the description for that listing but its certainly an interesting sales tactic.
Price got lowered to 1900 and was without shipping worldwide or any fees and for people he knows. Wasn't the right audience though since there are very few people with a more expensive collection there, so it make sense that he closed the thread in the other forum. If you wanna stir sht up at least have your facts straight. I know reading comprehension is hard for some people.
Corradobrit1
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So is providing a transparent description and current pics it seems. Maybe thats the real reason it didn't sell on the German forum. Not like Jannis' work is unknown and unappreciated there. In my experience there are discerning buyers with money on Messerforum.net too.
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Corradobrit1
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Since the seller deleted the description we only have your word for that. I'm confident it was €1800 but unsure if that included the €200 hence 'possibly'.
Hockey3081
Senior Member
Quite the disparity in pricing on one forum vs here. Someone here may have jumped on it if they were seeking a Xerxes and thinking they’re getting a brand spanking new knife for 2500 €. Seems interesting that the price was dropped a day later when it was clarified that the knife is clearly not in new condition.
I’m not saying there was bad faith but it’s not a great look.
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Welp, seems like you are confidently wrong like so often.
No idea what the starting price was but it was listed 1900€ after the 200€ price reduction was stated, so I would assume it was 2100€.
I have seen it and thought too rich for myself but not a bad price for such a Xerxes. No 1800 to be found.
Didn't Kamon himself! call you out some days ago about some bullshitttery you spewed which showed your lack of knowledge. Seems like quite an L week for you.
Also waiting for you to actively take part in BST because I see you so often in threads playing Sheriff.
How about selling your Kato for 400?
I have offered my Dalman for less money on one of the German knife forums since transactions are way easier and smoother there and feel a better connection to them. No stupid PayPal fees, easy shipping, no annyoing ghosting. Simple bank transfer, thank you, you are welcome and done.
Not saying I haven't had good experience on KKF selling and buying stuff. But I think a lot of people can agree they have had some bad interactions.
Nowhere was it stated BNIB, NIB or that it was ununsed like I see so often here. Looks in pretty good condition, just some light patina.
What I agree with is that the OP didn't do a good job providing all the details and pics I would like to see directly but I have seen enough threads started without any pics or anything. The OP provided details and additional pictures the same day when asked about it.
I already mentioned it before imo it shows some illiteracy with BST on OP's side. Better to keep it simple, show less pics and some core ones. Him lowering the price already also shows his inexperience but also might be some acknowledgement on his side. Also price reduction happened before Corrado calling him a flipper (indirectly).
It's hard to get BST-etiquette and timing. If you bump too often people won't like it but you might be missing the right person if you don't bump enough. If you lower your price some people also seem to have a problem with it.
This whole ordeal leaves a bad taste in my mouth
I’m most likely the least knowledgeable person here when it comes to knives but when I saw the new pics it made me feel a bit uneasy.
You are not in the German kitchen knife scene. So you can't really form an opinion. The number of active members is quite manageable. For most active people, including me, the price is beyond your means. Nonetheless, these are just speculations on your part. In my opinion the knife is in good condition. I don't see any false information here. In my opinion the price is very fair. The seller is a very respected person in Germany and Austria. The knife would cost a lot more today. How often do I read here in the bst... one of my best cutters...so why are you selling it? The prices of Yanick's in the BST are also beyond what they would cost directly from him. And they are also used. This is offen just the hype. For me, a kitchen knife is a tool and it should be used. It should cut well and meet my needs and I'm willing to spend money because it's worth it to me.
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Don’t want to side track you guys’ convo here. This question caught my eye though. People have different goals in this hobby. Some people just like to keep trying different knives. If the end goal is not to find the five most amazing knives to use and stop, you will have to keep selling so you can buy and try more.
Can understand that and I agree. But this guys are mostly known here. They have a good reputation and you know what you get.
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Yessir. Have absolutely sold my best cutters. No knife in my modest little stable even ranks on the top 10 lol.
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This is the way!
Let me just say a few words to that:
You are wrong 2 times here. I never offered the knife there for 1.800 (was 1.900€ as already mentioned) and the knife was offered for 2.400€ here when you stated this post. So please, if you want to get upset, then do your homework and don't tell falsehoods.
The reasons for the price difference have already been mentioned; on one hand, significantly higher shipping costs are to expect, and I have also taken PayPal fees into account. In addition, an unwritten rule in the German forum is that one should not sell knives for more than they cost oneself. It's totally different than here but of course you don't know that. Furthermore everyone is free to contact me and discuss the details.
What bothers me way more: The knife is a unique piece, it has been exclusively in my possession for about 7 years, it was a collaboration with Xerxes which he would never ever do again and I alone can decide for how much money I want to offer it. In this forum, the thesis clearly prevails that the market will regulate the price, or am I wrong? Please explain to me how you come to mention 'flipping' in this context or what prompts you to refer to it in this thread? It's not the case that I bought the knife a week ago for 1.000 bucks and sell it now for 2.400 (what's flipping to me). I own this knife for at least 7 years and it never had another owner.
No one has to buy my knife if they don't like it; the market price for such a unique piece is difficult to determine, so what speaks against setting the price fairly high (although it must be clear to all of you here that today you cannot even remotely obtain such a knife from Xerxes at the same price), to clarify the demand? Again: Isn't it the market that regulates the price? In addition, as far as I can tell, it is customary here to set knives at a high price and then gradually reduce them, or am I mistaken?
I find this crusade against me inappropriate. I did already apologize to not offer pics immediately, yes, that's a big learning for me. But this has nothing to do with my right to sell the knife for whatever I think is appropriate.
This is all I have to say on this topic; interested people are welcome to contact me, and I can refer to some very well-known makers and collectors who will vouch for my integrity.
Mack.
p.s. To be clear: I take the liberty to reduce the price of my knife after my fancy.
bearhippo
Senior Member
I'm of the camp that you're completely in the right to ask for what you want on pieces like this that don't exactly have a market value (e.g. it's a whole lot different than selling a Toyama/Watanabe Gyuto where many have sold vs. your older Xerxes collaboration). That being said, I'm also of the camp where I believe that one should try to get fair market value regardless of the relationship since it'd be in their best interests (homies would still get a bit of a discount though). One could definitely price a lot cheaper if they were feeling generous but I'm afraid to say that I've seen some hobbyists take advantage - although this is a strong phrase for the lack of a better term + something I've seen outside of kitchen knives too - and sell at a decent profit relative to what they paid.
Hot take? Perhaps it's the niche nature of kitchen knives but I can't quite say I've ever been around sentiment like this in other hobbies that are similar in nature (i.e. limited supply of the products in question => market does market things).
