Honesuki or Petty...

[GBT-Splint]

Which do y'all prefer, a honesuki with a spine thickness of 2.5 or 3?

I like Honesuki to be on the thinner side and not too hard steel. It's just my opinion as I've learned to work with thin knives I believe it allows for more precise work.
What do you think about that?

 

[deskjockey]

I'm seriously considering getting a honesuki. I'm a home cook who enjoys breaking down chickens and do two or three in about as many weeks. Currently I use a Wusthof Gourmet 6" cook's knife for it and it does alright but the shape isn't ideal.

I don't do a lot of petty-type work as in in-hand or real detailed work.

I guess the only thing somewhat lingering in my mind is a bot of versatility. I reckon the obvious answer is the petty is more versatile but can a honesuki provide some versatility?

A bit of out loud thinking if you will but also interested in the thoughts of you experienced folks.

Thanks in advance.

I'm one known to use a Honesuki for paring/petty like tasks. Does it work as a wonderful petty, NO! However, on hard squash and cold cheddar cheese, it works well.

I find a petty to be too thin and flexible for what I want out of a knife like that. YMMV

Regarding spine thickness, 2mm vs 3mm isn't significant to me so, I would buy the one from my favorite vendor or maker. As long as it is stiff, the rest is mainly subjective to me.

Today, the JKI semi-stainless option at less than $100 is where I would start looking, though a good carbon steel model would also be tempting. Personally, I'd avoid the so-called super steels that aren't basic carbon options. The 4th and 5th generation special stainless steels are not something I would want to maintain for a knife like this.

 

[Qapla']

I'm one known to use a Honesuki for paring/petty like tasks. Does it work as a wonderful petty, NO! However, on hard squash and cold cheddar cheese, it works well.

It doesn't steer everywhere on those foods?

 

[deskjockey]

It doesn't steer everywhere on those foods?

No steering for me. Mine is close to a 50/50 edge bevel, maybe ~60/~40. The handle 'steers' the Honesuki really well and easily handles any tough spots in a squash or small offset in the edge bevels. In really hard stuff, the blade body 'offset' is easily accommodated with the handle and I really don't notice it or any significant effort keeping it pretty straight, though I'm not the pickiest person for a perfectly square cube or matchstick as a home cook.

If I had a really big squash and wanted to slice it lengthwise for 12 or more inches, it is not the best tool in the drawer. Cubing the squash for a soup for example, it is really easy to get nice square chunks. A green squash that is really hard will tend to split though before contact with the edge but that is a different problem. Really cold carrots also tend to split if cut with the Honesuki.

Obviously, some tasks are performed much better with a Chef's knife or Gyuto. However, if you limit yourself to paring type tasks, it works really well with the only negative being some splits in a few cold things that are very hard or aren't fully ripe.

I don't use it for really large squash so, that isn't really an issue for me. Slicing and dicing firm vegetables for a soup is where it really shines for me. While it will cut leafy greens and onions, I'd reserve those for my Gyuto, Santoku, Chinese Cleaver because its thickness tends to crush those before they are cut.

For cold hard cheddar, it is the best knife I have right now. A big Gyuto or Chef's knife would work too but, I find the smaller size of the Honesuki to be better for me as it is just simply easier to control and less likely to slip or turn the cheese on the board and possibly injure myself.

So, celery for a hummus dip and similar things, that Honesuki really rocks! Tomatoes for example not so much unless you are making pasta sauce.

 

[deskjockey]

The main thing I think most people overlook besides blade stiffness is the handles.

The Honesuki I have has a traditional round handle with good texture. The petty was smaller and shorter handled with a slick surface. The petty actually caused me some hand pain at the time because the grip was not comfortable. In fairness, using chopsticks would do the same thing.

The larger diameter round handle with adequate length for my full hand was so much easier on my hand stress that it really probably biased me to give up on the Petty and I found the things I could not do with the Honesuki, I could with my Santoku at the time.

The skinny small Petty handles and I are a bit like oil and water. Yes I can use them but, will do so only under some duress.

 

[captaincaed]

It doesn't steer everywhere on those foods?

Having had both 50/50 and 99/1 ground honesuki, the latter is the winner for chicken and butchery in general. It really shines when you ask it to do its specific task. For me, a 50/50 is a "honesuki-shaped petty", much like you have a "Kiritsuke-shape/K-tip gyuto". The grind 99/1 grind makes the knife as much as or more than the profile. If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly.

+1 to the JKI version. The only downside is not qualifying for free shipping, so you gotta add something else to the cart...

 

[Benuser]

It doesn't steer everywhere on those foods?

Not everywhere. Quite predictable. You may compensate by keeping the knife inclined. That's how a strongly asymmetric blade may cut straight through hard cheese (mostly old farmers' Gouda, @deskjockey).

 

[damiano]

Regarding the original question, i.e. petty vs honesuki, a potential knife that can handle both tasks relatively well is the Munetoshi 165mm petty. I have both this and the Misono honesuki, but I feel the Mune is tough enough to handle a chicken. Even if I have never done so myself. If money is tight and you have to pick just one knife, a Mune 165mm is what I’d choose.

 

[deskjockey]

Not everywhere. Quite predictable. You may compensate by keeping the knife inclined. That's how a strongly asymmetric blade may cut straight through hard cheese (mostly old farmers' Gouda, @deskjockey).

I never really paid attention to the 'incline' but, it definitely wasn't extreme. I was mostly focused on the end result so, 'finesse' was not a high priority. The leverage and control of the handle on my knife made it easy to control so, I guess it was basically intuitive to get a good cut on a hard block of cheese. I should note, I used cheese with good fat content and not overly dry so, while hard when cold it definitely was not hard like some of the dry-aged cheeses my father bought which were really crumbly when cut.

While I wouldn't use this knife on a wheel of cheese, it certainly worked well with 1lb blocks. Slices on 8oz blocks for crackers was pretty easy too.

 

[deskjockey]

Regarding the original question, i.e. petty vs honesuki, a potential knife that can handle both tasks relatively well is the Munetoshi 165mm petty. I have both this and the Misono honesuki, but I feel the Mune is tough enough to handle a chicken. Even if I have never done so myself. If money is tight and you have to pick just one knife, a Mune 165mm is what I’d choose.

It doesn't really look like a petty to me but, it sure looks like a nice knife. It's hard to tell from the pictures I saw so, how large is the handle? Length and diameter look like they might be a little smaller than I am used to but, a lot better than the petty I had a long time ago.

 

[damiano]

It doesn't really look like a petty to me but, it sure looks like a nice knife. It's hard to tell from the pictures I saw so, how large is the handle? Length and diameter look like they might be a little smaller than I am used to but, a lot better than the petty I had a long time ago.

It's quite a versatile knife, shaped a bit like a mini gyuto. The tip is able to finely slice onions, while the heel is pretty tough. It also fits well in my hand.

Not at home right now so cannot measure the handle, but will do so later today.

 

[Jovidah]

It's not just about toughness... it's also about the profile. The two main virtues for me in a honesuki is that you both get a really small and agile tip, and it's easy as pie to sharpen - even at the tip area. Compared to western boning knives; they tend to be narrow along the whole blade and then have this curve at the front... which sees the most use yet is the most difficult to sharpen (at least to me).
Never used that Mune petty but it looks a little bit on the tall side for me to fall in love with it for boning work. I just don't see myself poking that tip into a joint to cut a tendon.

When it comes to thickness... personally I think I'd lean mostly towards the sturdier side if that's all I had to choose between... but most of all I'd go for the 'this is a work knife approach'. No super fancy ultra hard steel, no super fancy handles (especially when you're an amateur who's likely to get both hands dirty). If you're new to this you're unlikely to have flawless technique and precision from the get go. I sure as hell didn't.
Personally I like that mine has pakkawood handles so I can just clean the handle with liberal amounts of hot water and soap without worrying about the handle falling apart in no-time. The blade on mine is a bit on the thin side and if I could change anything about it I'd give it a bit more heft in the blade. I agree on more substantial handles being nice (compared to the usually quite anemic petty handles); it's one of the things I really like about mine.

Using it as a petty; I mostly never tried it much because I'm not much of a petty user in the first place; I tend to only use the mid length knives for meat work. Shape feels a tad awkward for board work though. I'm sure you could make it work somehow but I'd mostly wonder why.
When it comes to the edge; I do that 99/1 thing, even if mostly because it's really easy and fast to sharpen.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

It's not just about toughness... it's also about the profile. The two main virtues for me in a honesuki is that you both get a really small and agile tip, and it's easy as pie to sharpen - even at the tip area. Compared to western boning knives; they tend to be narrow along the whole blade and then have this curve at the front... which sees the most use yet is the most difficult to sharpen (at least to me).
Never used that Mune petty but it looks a little bit on the tall side for me to fall in love with it for boning work. I just don't see myself poking that tip into a joint to cut a tendon.

When it comes to thickness... personally I think I'd lean mostly towards the sturdier side if that's all I had to choose between... but most of all I'd go for the 'this is a work knife approach'. No super fancy ultra hard steel, no super fancy handles (especially when you're an amateur who's likely to get both hands dirty). If you're new to this you're unlikely to have flawless technique and precision from the get go. I sure as hell didn't.
Personally I like that mine has pakkawood handles so I can just clean the handle with liberal amounts of hot water and soap without worrying about the handle falling apart in no-time. The blade on mine is a bit on the thin side and if I could change anything about it I'd give it a bit more heft in the blade. I agree on more substantial handles being nice (compared to the usually quite anemic petty handles); it's one of the things I really like about mine.

Using it as a petty; I mostly never tried it much because I'm not much of a petty user in the first place; I tend to only use the mid length knives for meat work. Shape feels a tad awkward for board work though. I'm sure you could make it work somehow but I'd mostly wonder why.
When it comes to the edge; I do that 99/1 thing, even if mostly because it's really easy and fast to sharpen.

This pretty much mimics my thoughts.

 

[deskjockey]

...

Using it as a petty; I mostly never tried it much because I'm not much of a petty user in the first place; I tend to only use the mid length knives for meat work. Shape feels a tad awkward for board work though. I'm sure you could make it work somehow but I'd mostly wonder why.
...

These days, I use a Nakiri a lot so, generally, I don't need a Honesuki but, the Nakiri doesn't work well if I need a sharp tip or need to bear down on something hard. Ideal tool for everything, NO! Serviceable for most things, YES!

 

[damiano]

how large is the handle?

The Munetoshi's 165mm petty handle measures 14.5 cm, and its heel 40mm. Meanwhile the 165mm Misono honesuki's handle is 12.5 cm (measured up until the choil) and its heel 43mm.

You can see them here, first and second from the top.

 

[deskjockey]

That mini-Gyuto shape looks really good. The classic Misono shape is the one I have. I find the point to be very useful and the long flat edge is useful for some cuts. If a used one shows up, it may find its way to me for a test spin.

 

[Jovidah]

After actually trying it I have to admit it's actually not half-bad as a cheese knife.
Not too long, but still has some height, so you can use it casually on a wooden plate without struggling with knuckle clearance.

There might be better knives for the job, and if you're working standing on a proper cutting board I'd just get some beater gyuto instead, but if you have one... it does work.

 

[deskjockey]

Ideal, No. Handy, Yes! Between the stiffness and large handle, I find it works better than I initially thought, especially on 'high pressure' cuts or if I need to put a hand on the spine. I find this control to be safer for some hard cuts versus a Gyuto or Nakiri as two common examples.

That Munetoshi 165mm petty though has my attention!