How sharp is sharp enough?

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Well for expediency I wasn't using "keen" quite right. Keen I believe is actually a measure of how little truncation there is at the edge. A 60deg edge can be very keen, but not necessarily so "Sharp" as this is a combination angle and keenness, with toothiness possibly thrown in there also.
 
Being a microbeveller I guess you could say that goes for myself also.
 
For years I've taken my gyuto to 10K, but am considering experimenting with something more like 6K (it's a ginsan stainless tadatsuna). 10K used to give me an edge that worked well for everything, but I had trouble with edge retention. Jon at JKI recommended I try microbevels, which have made a huge difference in retention. But now I'm experiencing for the first time the drawbacks that people attribute to highly polished edges ... namely, a lack of bite when cutting things like grape tomatoes. I'll be curious to see if a somewhat coarser edge fixes this problem without hurting push-cutting performance.

Any recommendations on a 5K–6K stone for fine-grained stainless, with very thin geometry? I've had a Suehira Rika on my list for a while, but there's so much more out there.
 
Of all the 5-6K's I have. The Rika is my go to. The rest collect dust now.
 
panda said:
i stop at 3k for carbon, 1k for stainless.
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I have noticed a few members saying that they stick to lower grits for their stainless like a 1k. Can you help me understand why that is the case? Thanks!
 
donhoang14 said:
I have noticed a few members saying that they stick to lower grits for their stainless like a 1k. Can you help me understand why that is the case? Thanks!
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I want to say they are speaking about cheap or soft stainless like Globals, Henkels and Wusthoff.

This is because the steel isn't hard enough to retain a refined edge so it's just not worth your time. As soon as you start cutting with it the edge is rolling over making all of that extra refining work futile. You'll have a slick soft edge that doesn't perform. Lower grit stones leave a larger toothier edge so even if the teeth start rolling over there's still something there to give some cutting action. These knives can be quickly touched up with a sharpening steel for maintenance until sharpening.

Not all stainless works this way. Properly heat treated R2 or AEBL are great examples of stainless steels with great edge retention.
 
I assume that Aus8 and similar steels at 58 HRC would also fall into the "too soft to polish past 1k" category? What about Aus10, VG10 and gin3 at say 61 HRC?
 
I wonder if some of these guys like panda may also be using carbon for their main cutting knives
so maybe not everything is perfect apples to apples with the use case as well as the steels.

so maybe a combination of lower quality alloys, inherent limitations of the alloys,
and some use-cases where 'good enough' is 'good enough' without any more work/refinement
 
Nemo said:
I assume that Aus8 and similar steels at 58 HRC would also fall into the "too soft to polish past 1k" category? What about Aus10, VG10 and gin3 at say 61 HRC?
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I find Aus8 to do just fine with higher refinement. I take my wife's Suisin western knives to 3k and they hold a nice edge well enough. Actually, that is about 3k as I finish on an aoto.
 
I believe it has to do with carbide size. Sandvik's 19c27 -- used in Misono's UX-10 -- and its Japanese answer Ginsanko-3 are made to provide a toothy edge. For sure you will need fine stones to get rid of the burr, but looking for a high polish makes no sense here, IMHO. Do that with AEB-L or so.
 
K813zra said:
I find Aus8 to do just fine with higher refinement. I take my wife's Suisin western knives to 3k and they hold a nice edge well enough. Actually, that is about 3k as I finish on an aoto.
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Thanks.

Similar to what I have been doing on FKMs (with Chosera 1k, 3k). They did seem to hold that sharpness OK, but I was wondering if I was being excessively optimistic.
 
Benuser said:
I believe it has to do with carbide size. Sandvik's 19c27 -- used in Misono's UX-10 -- and its Japanese answer Ginsanko-3 are made to provide a toothy edge. For sure you will need fine stones to get rid of the burr, but looking for a high polish makes no sense here, IMHO. Do that with AEB-L or so.
Click to expand...
Does this mean that for 19c27, G3 (and presumably VG10) you use around a 1k edge deburred on 3-5k?

Do you sharpen AEBL (presuming a good HT) like a carbon steel?
 
Nemo said:
Does this mean that for 19c27, G3 (and presumably VG10) you use around a 1k edge deburred on 3-5k?

Do you sharpen AEBL (presuming a good HT) like a carbon steel?
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For sure. I want to enhance existing qualities. No polishing for coarse steels, fine polishing with fine stuff.
 
Grab something like a Vic, sharpen it at 12deg/side or so, then strop in a micro-bevel at 25-30/side with a 6K stone. I think you'l be surprised at what it will do.
 
rick alen said:
Grab something like a Vic, sharpen it at 12deg/side or so, then strop in a micro-bevel at 25-30/side with a 6K stone. I think you'l be surprised at what it will do.
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This is how I see it as well.
I am possibly in the minority here, but I will take the Mrs's German stainlesses up to Ohira Suita with what I consider very good results in the ability for these less-than-ideal blades to perform and edge retention. The difference between stopping at a 1k synth as opposed to 1>4 synth, ending with Ohira Suita is dramatic for me.
 
Interesting! I thought most people take their edges way higher. I've always considered the 5k edge as toothy and rough. Most times I go at least 10k for most knives.
 
As I use an angle-controlling system (Bogdan), I end with 12K. Without the system I end with the Naniwa Professional 5k.
And I'm controlling the edge with a microscope.
A little bit of overkill of course, but with Bogdan you get a closed and fine Edge witch lasts a lot longer than a non-closed edge.


Mack.
 
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