Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2

[ThEoRy]

Who cares about factory edge? I just sharpen it how I want anyway.

 

[toddnmd]

Yes, a 240 Kono is typically in the low 230s.

I believe the pics are accurate--the bevels are different between the blue and white. That seems to be pretty consistent among the offerings, if you compare the same blade type between b#2, w#2, and w#1.

Kono Fujis seem to get near universal praise.

 

[NO ChoP!]

If they did them in stainless clad, I'd sell my entire kit....

 

[Keith Sinclair]

One of the culinary students I taught freehand to last semester bought the Konosuke Fujiyama Blue#2 Funayuki Gyuto 240mm.When he showed it to me my jaw dropped.Beautiful knife bold Hamon line.I guess a few of these students have deep pockets.Love the blk handle,tall bevels,thinness behind the edge.

 

[Mateyhv]

Who cares about factory edge? I just sharpen it how I want anyway.

Its about the bevel, not the edge

Yes, a 240 Kono is typically in the low 230s.

I believe the pics are accurate--the bevels are different between the blue and white. That seems to be pretty consistent among the offerings, if you compare the same blade type between b#2, w#2, and w#1...

Thats what I am curious about :eyebrow: I can't see any practical reason.

 

[ThEoRy]

Its about the bevel, not the edge

I know, I'm just saying who cares what the factory does? If you want the white, get the white then make the bevel as big as you want it. The difference between the white and blue fujiyama I used was simple, the white sharpened up a little faster but the blue held its edge a little longer. Both fantastic cutters, really you can't go wrong either way.

 

[Mateyhv]

I know, I'm just saying who cares what the factory does? If you want the white, get the white then make the bevel as big as you want it. The difference between the white and blue fujiyama I used was simple, the white sharpened up a little faster but the blue held its edge a little longer. Both fantastic cutters, really you can't go wrong either way.

Thanks, that is an interesting approach, however I am not confident enough to attempt a bevel change in a $400 knife, at least not until I have a couple more years of sharpening experience but I might consider it. Nice comprarision between white and blue steels.

 

[NO ChoP!]

Not sure how one would transform a small bevel into a wide bevel. That's some serious alterations, Theory.

 

[masibu]

For a gyuto, I personally prefer blue to white although differences are fairly minor. I believe white can take a more stellar edge more readily than blue but it won't last quite as long (blue steel certainly isnt difficult to sharpen at all btw). With a gyuto making regular board contact and depending on how you treat your knives, you could find yourself dulling white knives easier than blue knives (in general anyway). I like white steel for a slicer which makes less board contact. I generally use it for proteins which are not so acidic and therefore I get less reactivity problems as well.

If you don't feel comfortable setting a bevel yet and are happy with the bevel size of the fujiyama blue, I would roll with it. Practice sharpening with a medium grit stone until you feel comfortable using a coarser one and you may surprise yourself how comfortable you feel setting a new bevel after a while. There are plenty of sharpening videos out there to do this, although Jon's are probably the most recommended.

 

[NO ChoP!]

I think some are not understanding what a wide bevel knife is. The Fujiyama white steel and blue steel differ greatly in geometry. The wide bevel is actually part of the geometry of the knife, not just a "bevel" that can be set with a course stone.

It's like saying you can turn your sujihiki into a yanagi with simple sharpening.

 

[Mateyhv]

I think some are not understanding what a wide bevel knife is. The Fujiyama white steel and blue steel differ greatly in geometry. The wide bevel is actually part of the geometry of the knife, not just a "bevel" that can be set with a course stone...

That is exactly what my question was about! It is difficult to understand how great the difference in bevels is without a picture of each knife (I can't load pics but you can find them on CKTG site), and I wonder if there is some reason for that difference. Maybe I am wrong thinking they are the same knife with a different steel. Maybe they are simply quite similar knives :dontknow:

 

[toddnmd]

Maybe I am wrong thinking they are the same knife with a different steel.

The bevels, as shown in the pics are definitely different; they are not the same knife with a different steel. I remember looking at the nakiris in blue and one of the whites (can't remember which), and noticed it was the same pic (could tell from the marbling in the buffalo horn ferrule). I asked MR about it, and he then updated the white pic, and the bevel was clearly different from the blue.

I'll let some more experience folks explain the performance differences between the wider and narrower bevels, and the reasons why the blacksmith who makes these does them differently. (I trust that it is done for a good reason.) I don't think it would be a good idea to buy the white and then try to reset the bevel to be like the blue.

I've seen quite a few people mention that white is a bit easier to sharpen, and blue has slightly better edge retention, but that most people won't notice that much of a difference.

The main complaint I've seen about the Kono Fujis is that the price has risen a fair amount over the past few years, so they used to be a better deal than they are now. But people who have bought them more recently still seem to be very happy with their performance.

 

[NO ChoP!]

The biggest advantage to a wide bevel is the ease in sharpening while maintaining the geometry.

With a small bevel, one must consider thinning behind the edge, through eyeballing to keep the geometry with each sharpening.

A wide bevel is almost built-in...

 

[Timthebeaver]

I think the way that Konosuke gets the grinding done on these has changed. Older Fujiyamas didn't have the large secondary bevel, iirc. The new Konosuke ginsankos have the large secondary bevel too. I'm sure getting a white steel Fujiyama with the secondary bevel wouldn't be a problem if you specified it.

Oddly, Mizuno did something similar with their grinds. The old Akitada hontanren knives didn't have large secondary bevels, now they do.

 

[ThEoRy]

Not sure how one would transform a small bevel into a wide bevel. That's some serious alterations, Theory.

I was thinking belt grinder but yeah, that's a huge project. Risky one at that. Really I would just sharpen the knives similar to how I sharpen a single bevel knife but it would be a hamaguri edge on both sides.

 

[Mateyhv]

To be honest, I just looked thoroughly the pictures of all three Fujiyama 240 gyutos on CKTG and they all have different bevels, easy to spot on the heel :detective: The smallest goes to white #1, medium to white #2 (it might be the picture angle in the whites), and the widest to blue #2. The difference is really big so now I feel like each one is made in a different workshops, otherwise the inconsistency is quite puzzling. :knife:

 

[Lefty]

I'm pretty sure the maker has changed for these knives, based on pictures. I have experience with the old style (small bevel), and they look nothing like the new ones with the Heiji or Kagekiyo style secondary bevel.

 

[NO ChoP!]

So, word on the street is the blue, honyaki blue, and ginsanko are wide bevel. White steel and the classic Konosukes are all small bevel.

 

[Bikeman]

I have a 6 month old Kono Fuji White2 and the secondary bevel is not that dramatic. The knife is a great performer and a favorite of mine! What is the purpose of the larger secondary bevel does add to the performance of the blade ?

 

[NO ChoP!]

I think it helps keep the edge extremely thin. It's also like a built-in guide for thinning while sharpening.

 

[lucabrasi]

I'm pretty sure it's been stated that the white fujiyamas and blue fujiyamas are different blacksmiths. Stated with some certainty over there.

 

[Bikeman]

Is the difference in blacksmiths the reason for the price difference or is it the cost of the material? The blue#2 is more expensive than the price of the White#2 that I have.

 

[Mateyhv]

Is the difference in blacksmiths the reason for the price difference or is it the cost of the material? The blue#2 is more expensive than the price of the White#2 that I have.

I think the difference is in the steel not the blacksmith, the blue#2 and white#1 are equally priced. Well sharpened I don't think there could be felt any difference between the three steel flavours, at least not without doing a controlled experiment with them side by side and even though the difference should be minimal.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Well after seeing this blade in person & putting an edge on it,one of the most beautiful chef knives I have ever seen(I know tastes differ)I took the plunge & ordered the Blue #2 Konosuke Fujiyama 240mm,I might of gone wt. the 270mm but it was sold out.Anyway have a 270mm Takeda fr. Pavel awesome blade.

This is the most I have ever paid for a chef's knife,even more than my Tamahagane blade fr. A-Frames.Feel like I've gone over the deep end like some other's on this forum.My lust for Japanese forged carbon blades continues

 

[Mateyhv]

Well after seeing this blade in person & putting an edge on it,one of the most beautiful chef knives I have ever seen(I know tastes differ)I took the plunge & ordered the Blue #2 Konosuke Fujiyama 240mm...

Would be great to see some pics of that beauty :drool:

 

[panda]

i like the grind on the kono blues.

keith, what the heck is tamahagane?

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Tamahagane steel is made fr. acome iron sands fired in a tatara oven heated to high temps fueled with charcoal.

The best steel ever put into Samurai Swords is Tamahagane-Very high end swords are still made with it.It is very rare in kitchen knives because of the labor intensive & expertize required to fire & forge it.

I watched on PBS these brothers in their late 80's making the oven creating the steel pounding & folding clay tempering a blade just like the one I bought.It is super thin & light weight takes a razor edge.After I use it clean it & polish it with a sword kit.I totally admit that I am guilty of being a fan of Japanese forged carbon steel & bought this knife fr. A-Frames because of the real rareness of it ,forging process & esp. the steel itself.:O

 

[panda]

sounds silly expensive. how does it compare with modern steels in usage? i take it this is just a novelty buy for you.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I paid 365.00 for it.The only other site i found it was 500.00,so I got it cheaper at A-Frames. It is very thin wt. tall assem bevels,every time I use it just glides effortless thru food.I have not used it except for home lunch & dinner prep so cannot say how the edge holds up after hours of cutting.But so far it has held a crisp sharp edge for quite a while.

I don't know if novelty is how I'd put it,but yes deff. got it for the forging process & steel.I do not know if it performs better than the best modern steels,but it's a solid performer in the short term.

I am the kind of knife nerd that enjoys using a Tamahagane steel knife to prep dinner on an end grain cutting board.

 

[Chef Doom]

keithsaltydog, are you sure your knife isn't the Tamahagane brand? I find it hard to believe that you purchased a chef knife for that price.