Munetoshi, Toshihirosaku, Toyama - how are they?

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Munetoshi 240 kurouchi just became available so I immediately ordered one - if I will not miss the delivery guy I expect to have the knife within a day or two :) That is what I call first working day after vacation :)
 
panda said:
I wish you had ordered toshi at the same time and compare for us.
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I really wanted to do that, but I have many expenses comming up (2 more knives, 2x72" grinder, another workbench and the list goes on - do not tell my wife :) ) so I just had to pull a stop on this one. But I was very tempted. I still may order in the near future though. If anyone in EU would be willing to lend me theirs I will do the comparison review free of charge :D
 
Just wait a bit, i'll make it by the end of August! All the new knives Maksim has will be tested by me at his place. Patience... ;)
 
I just grabbed a 240 Toyama, and 270 for my sous. Figured I should get em before the price hike. Can't wait to take the 240 for a spin based solely on how awesome my 270 is. First time I've ever owned a matching 240/270 gyuto set, if that tells you anything🤔
 
My Munetoshi just arrived and looks great :) I will need some more time with it, but first impression is very positive. Yes, the grind is not the thinnest - 10 mm from the edge it goes from 1.6 mm at the heel to 1.2 mm close to the tip, but it is yet to be seen what that means on a cutting board.

The knife arrived shaving sharp.

Big 'thank you' to Maxim who threw in the Tomo Nagura Extra for free when I wanted ti add it to my already payed-for order.
 
I just ordered a 210 Toyama (like, seconds ago) thanks, in large part, to this thread. I'm both excited and slightly incredulous that I pulled the trigger.
 
brainsausage said:
You must've just beat me to it! That was a great deal on an already great deal.
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Sorry man! For once I didn't hesitate. Didn't even look up what they usually sell for, thought it was a good deal, just pulled the trigger.

Not sure if I like WH, but I figured this is a good way of trying one. If not you'll see it on BST soon. Will have to sell 3-8 knives anyway lol
 
Damn it you guys! I'm trying to hold off on (yet another) Toyama, but you are wearing me down! :pirate1:

Clearly I absolutely need a 210 gyuto to balance my 240 gyuto and the monster 210 nakiri, right?! ;)

Cheers

J
 
Just received the Munetoshi Gyuto 240 and Toshihirosaku Gyuto 240. I already have the Toyama Noborikoi Gyuto 240.

I've got some first impressions regarding performance, and it involves mostly carrots. :)

Both Munetoshi and Toshihirosaku are thin behind the edge and cuts well, but the Munetoshi wedges slightly more than the Toshihirosaku. On the other hand, the Munetoshi has better separation and release, while the Toshihirosaku is a bit sticky. The Toyama is higher class than both these knives regarding performance, in my opinion.

The Munetoshi seems to be a great middle weight with "normal" profile for a great price. Good distal taper but the tip could have been a bit thinner, I think. Rough fit & finish but I like that.

The Toshihirosaku is a bit sticky. As I understand it, this is Wakui and his grinds are usually very thin above the edge, almost a bit concave. Myself, I prefer a bit more convex or something to make better separation when cutting. I'm a bit addicted to light pull cutting and then sticking/friction becomes more of an issue. When push cutting, you don't notice it as much. I have a Wakui Kurouchi Nashiji Gyuto 240 and it's very similar to this kasumi model, but perhaps a bit less sticky and with better food release. First impression is that I prefer the nashiji model. Important note: Yes, the Toshihirosaku is indeed only 47 mm tall at the heel. My nashiji model is 48 mm at the heel, so it seems consistent for this maker. Otherwise, great fit & finish on this kasumi model and thinner at the tip than the Munetoshi.

Both Munetoshi and Toshihirosaku have reactive cladding, but you notice it more on the Toshihirosaku because it is migaki/kasumi finish. I would say the Toshihirosaku is pretty similar to the Toyama in its reactiveness, but I haven't used it for that many types of ingredients yet.

Edit: Please note, these are only first impressions. :)
 
240 Toyama showed up today. Took a couple quick pics.

View attachment 32626


ImageUploadedByKitchen Knife Forum1469829508.580989.jpg

Just the tip:

ImageUploadedByKitchen Knife Forum1469829561.257013.jpg

ImageUploadedByKitchen Knife Forum1469829597.201661.jpg
 
limpet said:
Just received the Munetoshi Gyuto 240 and Toshihirosaku Gyuto 240. I already have the Toyama Noborikoi Gyuto 240.

I've got some first impressions regarding performance, and it involves mostly carrots. :)

Both Munetoshi and Toshihirosaku are thin behind the edge and cuts well, but the Munetoshi wedges slightly more than the Toshihirosaku. On the other hand, the Munetoshi has better separation and release, while the Toshihirosaku is a bit sticky. The Toyama is higher class than both these knives regarding performance, in my opinion.

The Munetoshi seems to be a great middle weight with "normal" profile for a great price. Good distal taper but the tip could have been a bit thinner, I think. Rough fit & finish but I like that.

The Toshihirosaku is a bit sticky. As I understand it, this is Wakui and his grinds are usually very thin above the edge, almost a bit concave. Myself, I prefer a bit more convex or something to make better separation when cutting. I'm a bit addicted to light pull cutting and then sticking/friction becomes more of an issue. When push cutting, you don't notice it as much. I have a Wakui Kurouchi Nashiji Gyuto 240 and it's very similar to this kasumi model, but perhaps a bit less sticky and with better food release. First impression is that I prefer the nashiji model. Important note: Yes, the Toshihirosaku is indeed only 47 mm tall at the heel. My nashiji model is 48 mm at the heel, so it seems consistent for this maker. Otherwise, great fit & finish on this kasumi model and thinner at the tip than the Munetoshi.

Both Munetoshi and Toshihirosaku have reactive cladding, but you notice it more on the Toshihirosaku because it is migaki/kasumi finish. I would say the Toshihirosaku is pretty similar to the Toyama in its reactiveness, but I haven't used it for that many types of ingredients yet.

Edit: Please note, these are only first impressions. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your initial impressions. How do you like toshihirosaku profile? Similar to wakui basically?
 
labor of love said:
Thanks for your initial impressions. How do you like toshihirosaku profile? Similar to wakui basically?
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Very similar, see picture below comparing it to the Wakui nashiji that I have. Compared to for example Masakage gyutos, the Toshihirosaku/Wakui doesn't have that much back-belly at the heel.

Yesterday I sharpened the Munetoshi on my JNS 1000 and 6000 grit stones. Very easy to create a burr since the edge is pretty thin. I then used it when cooking dinner. I must say, I like this knife a lot. Even though it wedges slightly more than for example Wakui, it's got excellent food release and separation which I value more than 100 % wedge-free-ness. I think the kurouchi/nashiji finish helps a bit here as well. I was chopping up potatoes and it was much better than the Toshihirosaku when it came to release. Things stayed on the board at greater extent. I also find the kurouchi/nashiji finish very beautiful.

Also I mentioned that the profile on the Munetoshi was more "normal". When looking at it more closely, I think I said that mostly because it has a pretty average height at the heel: 50 mm. Otherwise, if you look at the picture below, it's got a profile similar to the Toshihirosaku where it's pretty flat at the heel. A little less belly towards the tip. It's hard to see in that picture, but the 3 mm extra in height on the Munetoshi makes a difference when using it.

Toshihirosaku vs Wakui


Toshihirosaku vs Munetoshi


Munetoshi Kurouchi Nashiji
 
OK, so I have used my new Munetoshi on a few items. What an interesting knife. After I measured the blade it turn out that for a good part it is 1.5 mm @ 10 mm from the edge - not a thin grind by any measure. but beyond that point the knife gets a lot thinner and it cuts semi-hard stuff very well. No, it does not glide through food like my Kochi Santoku does, but it is just joy to cut with. Potatoes, onion, etc. Very nice. Even the tip seems thin enough. I have yet to try it on some hard stuff. I expect some wedging - the question will be how much.

I appreciate how sharp the knife arrived - shaves perfectly and cuts tomato skin like dream.

The kurouchi is really cool - reminds me a bit of Kochi, but side-by-se it looks different. The Kochi is matt, while the one on Munetoshi is quite glossy. I am not sure whether that is some sort of protective finish.

And a few photos, of course :)







 
Badgertooth said:
Very. But they do settle down
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Agree. It will turn you mad in the beginning, but... Wait a bit. Just cut- use it. You'll get a smooth patina.
White steel is a white steel...
But I really love my 270 Suji.. From all the Toyama range it's a Ferrari!!
Soooooooo niccccccce[emoji12][emoji12][emoji123]🏻[emoji123]🏻[emoji41][emoji41]
 
I took a quick picture of my three Toyama Noborikoi knives. I'm most fond of the nakiri and suji, because they are the only nakiri 210 mm and suji 300 mm I've got. But the gyuto 240 mm isn't bad either. ;)

 
Andrey V said:
Agree. It will turn you mad in the beginning, but... Wait a bit. Just cut- use it. You'll get a smooth patina.
White steel is a white steel...
But I really love my 270 Suji.. From all the Toyama range it's a Ferrari!!
Soooooooo niccccccce[emoji12][emoji12][emoji123]🏻[emoji123]🏻[emoji41][emoji41]
Click to expand...

I may be mistaken, but I believe Maxim only carries knives made by Toyama in blue steel, yes?

But yeah, it takes a bit to establish the patina but when you do, it's very stable IME.
 
brainsausage said:
I may be mistaken, but I believe Maxim only carries knives made by Toyama in blue steel, yes?

But yeah, it takes a bit to establish the patina but when you do, it's very stable IME.
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Was thinking about Munetoshi ( just answered to one friend)- he uses Shirogami.
Toyama is Aogami-of course- blue, thanks for pointing.
And again yes, it's stable after having established the patina.
Mune- as I wrote above, made me crazy. In Gyoto. I don't know why it wasn't an issue on a Butcher... Neither on his small utility knife. I love it. I have many - they are everywhere. A real utility knife.
 
Andrey, maybe because with the butcher or the utility knife you do not cut onions or tomatoes. I have the gyuto, but first impression is that the behaviour of the cladding is kind of 'normal'. That means quite reactive before some patina sets in.
 
On that Munetoshi that's hands down the best looking KU finish I've seen. Very rustic and authentic look in all kinds of right ways!
Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside and that's usually bad bad bad.
Toyama is seductive too.

Must. Resist. Getting. Weaker.

It's a good thing (or maybe bad, not sure?) I blew my budget already on some things that are on their way. So, I'm so not going to be thinking about either of these two in the near future at all! that's settled. Right! Right?
 
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