Project knife recommendation

[jaydee]

I have uploaded a couple that you can search for but will take more recent ones for you wirh choil and geometry shots. Gimme a day or so

 

[jaydee]

Last picture against the window is from the tip of the knife

 

[Simon082]

Last picture against the window is from the tip of the knife

I noticed the lamination line is very close to the edge, how does one take it up with out further thinning?, sandpaper/fingerstones?.

 

[ehhh]

Wait so this AS SS clad nakiri is very very denka like then?

I hadn't seen this version and I'm not into the riveted handles. But this one seems like a good fit for what I was looking for other than being a little smaller are more bellied.

I believe it's only a few specific Morihei Hisamoto models that are TF made, the one I linked to, the bolstered/fine finish versions, and these in stainless cladding: https://strataportland.com/collecti...nless-clad-tsuchime-210mm-gyuto-pakka-western

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think those are the only Morihei TFs.

 

[naptight]

I noticed the lamination line is very close to the edge, how does one take it up with out further thinning?, sandpaper/fingerstones?.

Good point! That second picture makes it look like it's all the way down to the secondary bevel. My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that as long as your cutting edge is core steel you're okay. And chips will stop at the cladding line. So the lower the line is the smaller the potential for chips.

 

[naptight]

I have uploaded a couple that you can search for but will take more recent ones for you wirh choil and geometry shots. Gimme a day or so

Thanks for posting these pictures. Are they from before you did the thinning?

I went ahead and ordered one. I know this idea will be controversial . But, now I'm wondering if I should cut a choil notch on my water jet?!

 

[jaydee]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think those are the only Morihei TFs.

I don't know and also don't care as the steel is really good. That said, any AS i tried has been really solid.
One thing i notice is that you can clearly see the core steel at the spine.(zoom in) Something i have seen at other TFs too. Looks handlaminated but i don't know.

 

[jaydee]

Thanks for posting these pictures. Are they from before you did the thinning?

After but i have not done much so far.
Stainless cladding is a lot of work and i take my time.

 

[naptight]

I got the Morihei today. Looking at it I realized it's not all that denka-like per se. It has the semi polished Tsuchime finish of the Maboroshi, the preliminated construction of the nashiji, and the steel of the denka. I'm not sure which line the grind is most similar to. Maybe the mab?

Can some of you with a better eye and more experience than me take a look at these photos and tell me what kind of work you think it needs? I know that it's amateurish to just think it needs thinning or judge it without actually feeling how it cuts. But, I'm also not experienced enough too cut with it and know what to improve. I did julienne a carrot and it pretty much just fell through with making almost no sound. I got a brand new ashi SS 210 gyuto too, for the free shipping from tetogi. The Ashi has a much thinner grind. But cutting the carrot made a lot more noise and was actually kind of splitting with the ashi.

 

[naptight]

So you may have noticed I already messed this one up. My first chip out of a j knife . I tried to hold it up right with a clamp to take a picture of the grind and it slipped forward, hitting the heel directly on the counter and chipping the edge. I lost probably a millimeter or two. Obviously, I'll have to bring up the edge profile to fix that, which kind of sucks because it's not the tallest nakiri to begin with. The profile also curves up at the heel quite a bit, creating a belly in the middle, which is a bummer because I like a very flat profile.

So the list of tasks are:

1) reprofile the edge to remove the belly and fix the chip.
2) thin bte after reprofiling. I assume I should try to also bring up the shinogi the same amount of height as I take off the edge? And that I want to keep the convexity on the right side of the blade (when holding it in a cutting position and looking down at it), and trying to keep the shanogi height similar on both sides?
3) I assume I will get out any flat spots in the grind during step 2. But this is where I get the bevels ready for stones?
4) round and polished the spine and choil
5) kasumi finish the bevels with finger stones
6) make a handle

Does this sound about right?

 

[refcast]

I would avoid trying to completely remove the chip and instead just use the knife, sharpen as it dulls. It's not the biggest chip at all, and most of it will come out in a brief sharpening. I wouldn't necessarily adjust the profile . . . It takes a lot of effort to make a knife slide right into food after reprofiling. Nice stone polished bevels is more a vanity thing, and not many knives are made such that there will be pretty even bevels, at least immediately. You can use a straightedge to check the grind, to see if it's gonna be a big hassle or not.

Its easy to make things worse, too. Like introducing a recurve while thinning or wide bevel sharpening, scratching up the blade face, etc.

Shinogi height is a weird concept . . . If you try to follow them on all knives, or make it even height on both sides, well the blade face itself won't easily allow that. What's important is a even consistent wide bevel or thinning angle, and usually toward the tip the wide bevel angle lowers or gets more acute.

The Ashi makes more noise because it's not as thin behind the edge, but thinner in the blade face. Silent cutters are thin very close to the edge

 

[naptight]

The Ashi makes more noise because it's not as thin behind the edge, but thinner in the blade face. Silent cutters are thin very close to the edge

Interesting.

and usually toward the tip the wide bevel angle lowers or gets more acute.

Is this true for nakiris as well? And do you mean this is often the goal when working on the bevels? I've see a lot of people mention wanting this when the tip is not thinned enough. This particular knife definitely has some high spots on the face where the shinogi creeps up.

I would avoid trying to completely remove the chip and instead just use the knife, sharpen as it dulls. It's not the biggest chip at all, and most of it will come out in a brief sharpening. I wouldn't necessarily adjust the profile . . . It takes a lot of effort to make a knife slide right into food after reprofiling. Nice stone polished bevels is more a vanity thing, and not many knives are made such that there will be pretty even bevels, at least immediately. You can use a straightedge to check the grind, to see if it's gonna be a big hassle or not.

Its easy to make things worse, too. Like introducing a recurve while thinning or wide bevel sharpening, scratching up the blade face, etc.

I'll probably start with polishing the spine and choil and making a handle. But, my intent is to spend a lot of time on it and risk messing it up. This is the perfect knife for me to learn on imo because if all goes well I'll have something that performed better than stock with great steel and ht. And if I mess it up it'll still perform ok and not cost too much.

I guess my question is, and I know it's not black and white, does this grind look like it would benefit from thinking? And how thin is too thin?

 

[refcast]

Interesting.


Is this true for nakiris as well? And do you mean this is often the goal when working on the bevels? I've see a lot of people mention wanting this when the tip is not thinned enough. This particular knife definitely has some shallow spots on the face where the shinogi creeps up.

There are some knives without distal taper that feel heavier. There are some knives with reverse distal taper that feel very choppy or unweildly sometimes. Distal taper -- of both grind and spine, can help with feelings of nimbleness and precision. Most Sakai made knives, have a wide bevel that gets more acute in angle towards the tip for precision work, less wedging there. It depends on if you use the knife that way at the tip. Some people like a tougher tip, so thicker geometry or edge there helps, like a microbevel or so on. It's a sort of consensus design I've seen over and over again is why I mention it . . . There are valid reasons to not have it on kitchen knives, mainly I've seen that on deba though.

I'll probably start with polishing the spine and choil and making a handle. But, my intent is to spend a lot of time on it and risk messing it up. This is the perfect knife for me to learn on imo because if all goes well I'll have something that performed better than stock with great steel and ht. And if I mess it up it'll still perform ok and not cost too much.

I guess my question is, and I know it's not black and white, does this grind look like it would benefit from thinking? And how thin is too thin?

The grind is fine it seems . . . You can wide bevel sharpen if you want the aesthetics of it, or feel through food to be possibly smoother. It's usable and that's what matters.

 

[esoo]

I guess my question is, and I know it's not black and white, does this grind look like it would benefit from thinking? And how thin is too thin?

Too thin is a personal choice. If you chip/deform the edge while using it it is too thin for you, and you need to sharpen it back to a thicker edge.

For me, and the people who pick up my knives in my house, nail flexing is too thin, but just before that is perfect.

 

[refcast]

When you polish the spine and choil, be aware of loose grit accidentally scratching the blade faces. . . Also stabbing yourself in the heel, done both a couple times.