Shout-out to CKTG
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dannynyc
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For the record, I didn't think anyone was giving me a hard time, so I have no issues with people expressing their frustrations regarding the experiences they've had. I just felt like I'd been a demanding customer and wanted to give a vendor the props I thought he deserved (not being aware of, as I mentioned earlier, the bad blood).
Long live free speech and to each their own!
Long live free speech and to each their own!
dannynyc
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kalaeb
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You are not alone, all of my experiences have been very positive, its the reason I have spent a couple thousand over the years with CKTG.
eshua
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I feel bad for everyone who's gotten less service than they need. I work 8 blocks from his shop and pretty much invite myself over whenever I'm in a buying mood. Been very fun to pick over all his stuff, but probably a big waste of his time ... keeping him from dealing with other customers lol
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I'm not a fan of knife fanatic's knife reviews but he does a decent job demonstrating the knifes cutting ability. If the knife was sold by someone other than mark I would seriously consider purchasing it.
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Kaleab, I'm glad you've had good experiences with mark, but in all honesty you're probably getting some preferential treatment if you're spending that much coin. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I received two knives from him that had defects. The first one was about $350. He willing took back the first knife (and sold it to someone else) after I pointed out an issue with it, recommended that I buy a "better" knife according to him because he wasn't sure if he would get more of these knives in. I agreed to do so, but I lost the benefit of a discount and paid more for this second knife (he didn't bring up offering the discount on the second and more expensive knife I purchased) and waited months until this second knife came in.
Then, this second knife had issues. This one was almost $400. I noticed an issue right away. He told me to go talk to the maker. I noticed another issue. Same thing. Each time I told him I noticed a problem with the knife, he told me to go talk to the maker. He brushed me off and told me to go deal with the maker directly every time. He took no responsibility for it and never offered a refund. After noticing three separate defects, I returned it unilaterally and demanded a refund.
He then proceed to yell at me when he received the knife and my demand for a refund because I unilaterally returned a knife with several defects after he never offered a refund after I told him of defect after defect with this knife. This is not hyperbole - he yelled at me, yelled at me for doing what I did.
I told him under most laws he is as responsible as the manufacturer for selling defective products, he then had the gall to then tell me to, "Talk to [him] like a man." ***??? You won't offer a refund to me for a $400 knife that has several defects because you're too tightfisted to do what's right, and when I finally am fed up with your dismissive attitude and send back the knife and demand a refund, you yell at me at tell me to "talk to him like a man"? If he acted like a "man" and did what was right in the first damn place, I would have never had to send the knife back and demand a refund and listen to his stupid "talk to me like a man" BS. (I did receive a refund for the knife.)
He's also taken advantage of friendships to learn more about various aspects of the knife-selling business and sharpening, then expanded his business to compete directly with other vendors he learned from, and purposely stocked and priced items to undercut these vendors. He's also approached other knife manufacturers who were introduced by other vendors and then bought knives from these manufacturers to directly compete with other vendors.
He's precisely the type of person I would never want to do business with. And, because of that, he lost thousands of dollars of business from me, that I've gladly paid to the vendors here, including Dave Martell, Jon, Stefan, Dave (BoardSmith), Maksim, Marko, and Mark at Burl Source.
If you really feel bad, how about telling him to be a more principled businessperson, to stop selling knives that have a number of fit and finish/quality issues (plenty of evidence here and other places about this), and to stop giving some of the worst customer service imaginable?
Kalaeb also has had a working relationship with Mark in the past.
(I'm just pointing this out for the sake of fact. On a personal level, although I've never met Kalaeb, I've only had good encounters with him. I've bought a knife from him and corresponded with him a number of times.)
Patatas Bravas
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Boy, evil Mark and CKTG comes up here time and time again, and I can't blame people for their negative comments if that's what they've experienced, and it's good that this is known to the community. (Personally, I've just once bought stropping stuff from Mark, and then nothing else again after reading the many warnings.) I have a suggestion, however. How about just being honest and creating a 'good/bad stuff about CKTG' thread, and then any time old issues pops up (probably will again very shortly) new members or anyone concerned can just then be referred to this thread? 'If you want to know about this, have a look here.' Etc. This would seem more efficient and less repetitive; it would also be more honest and open because, despite Jim's statement of 'official' policy, there has always been loads of axe grinding about this that has been tolerated, even to the point of the previous official and somewhat vengeful and even envious bans of said seller and website. If I were Mark, I'd probably be a bit amused by it all, if I had time to be. Going back to the start of this thread, my guess is that if he's a bit curt with his emails then it's because he's busy and gets lots of custom. Perhaps some other sellers are the same.
I've bought a couple of things from him, and the transactions were nothing out of ordinary, which is a good thing.
But the tutorial/review stuff coming out of him and his crew range from mildly idiotic to down right embarrassing. I always shake my head whenever I see his materials.
But the tutorial/review stuff coming out of him and his crew range from mildly idiotic to down right embarrassing. I always shake my head whenever I see his materials.
Patatas Bravas
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I've noticed that too. Wonder if it actually helps business? Seems like it'd be better to assume people are intelligent, rather than naive dummies.
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If what happened to mhlee happened to me I would feel the need to vent and share the experience with others. So I do sympathize with him. I'm kinda over bitching about mark myself but when a new thread is titled "Shout out to CKTG" it's kinda inevitable that negative feelings come out among us.
Patatas Bravas
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Me too, and I also sympathise. However, I can't also help but wonder if evil Mark sometimes has a look here and a good chuckle to himself over all the attention he gets.
Vengeful? You consider the policies that are in place to be vengeful?
Also, what do you mean by "envious bans"? Who's envious?
What if you had to start a forum because you were being kicked off of another forum (where your livelihood was earned) because the "said seller" had run you out of town.......would you still feel the same? :eyebrow:
AJ, what the hell are you talking about? I sure hope that you're not stirring the pot....again.
About a month before the sale of the forum I opened up the censors to allow CKTG to be discussed, however, all links to his business are still verboten.
kalaeb
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I feel as tho his targeted audience is the general public just looking for something better than a department store knife, not experienced folk who eat, sleep, and, breath the cutlery world like most here. That being said, his and his vendors videos, while lacking the expertise one can find here, will leave the commoner thoroughly entertained.
I sympathize with those of you who have had bad experiences, i have had only positive myself. I worked my way from a sur la table knife, up to CKTG, and in turn ended up here to get more knowledge of the topic to get higher quality products. I almost feel as if his site has become the stepping stone people will go through if they "step in it" and indulge in this wonderful obsession.:2cents:
He may.
But, rest assured, he or his sycophants also definitely look here regularly to see what's being offered and try to compete with what the vendors offer here by offering similar, or nearly identical products or services like the newly offered Hiromoto etching and thinning service by Shaun Fernandez. :lame: Kind of like how Mark offered the Beston 500, Bester 1200, Rika 5000 combo after Dave first really praised this combo years ago and sold these stones together (Mark originally pushed Shapton Glass Stones for beginners; see his beginners sharpening videos if they're still around) :lame::lame:, and how Mark started selling Fujiwara Teruyasu knives after Jon carried these knives :lame::lame::lame:.
So, I hope you'd be fine with running your own business, only to see a direct competitor try and copy exactly what you're doing and trying to offer the same products and services at a lesser cost.
Or, is this kind of business model and strategy something you do already?
You'd kind of have to be an idiot not to look at what is working elsewhere and copy it. Look at every other kind of store, it always works that way.
Fair enough. But to do it to a person he openly called a friend in a public forum, who he learned from, and asked for help from, then turned right around and offered the same product and directly undercut the same "friend"?
This is exactly why the vendors now won't give out any information other than the bare minimum.
So, if you ever happen to ask "Why won't [INSERT NAME OF VENDOR] tell me more about [INSERT STONE, KNIFE STEEL, GEOMETRY, PROFILE, ETC.]?" you can just answer the question with your own response.
Oh, I am sure he is a jerk, and his sycophant Ken is the weirdest human being I've ever seen on video, but I think he can be a jerk without everything he does being notable for its jerkiness.
I'm only a month or two into this whole knife world, so I don't really know what I am talking about, fwiw.
Damn.
I'm just saying nice to not see KKF members attacking each other. People are able to say they've had a positive experience or a negative experience and nobody's making any personal attacks. That's new and nice to see.
But I guess I spoke too soon. Way to take my positive observation about the forum and make me out to be a jerk.
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