The Santoku phenomenon

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bkdc said:
I consider my Takeda funayuki a santoku. It's my FAVORITE santoku. ^_^ I just sold the Banno Bunka. Great little performer. It's hard not to like a knife with that kind of name.
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And dude can that little sucker take an edge!:pirate1:

Thanks for the great deal BTW:doublethumbsup:

Mikey
 
i have both chef knives, a nakiri, a santoku and a cleaver.

my santoku is my 70% used knife. i like the profile, lets you push/pull cut, okish slice.

but why i prefer it is the shape. it's like a 270-300mm guyto shape grinded to be very nimble and manoeuvrable. i have also more clearance for my big fingers to pinch and hold the blade, not hitting the board when i push cut. i also like in a pro kitchen to have only one knife our of the roll most of the time. Ofc, for large volumes of same product i'll choose the specialized tool, but when you just have to mince a few veggies to flavor a sauté or a meat juice, its the perfect all purpoose tool, like a nakiri but with a tip and more rounded blade profile.

i love it. i look forward to have a custom 22mm one built from watanabe san.
 
I'm doing this backwards, but oh well. I want to read the rest of the posts, but I'll do it afterwards, so I don't get "swayed". Also, this might cause some repetition, and if so, I apologize.

To me, a santoku is a knife that can do it all, well enough. There's a tip, there's some belly, and there's flat. The heel height is good, the knife is fairly nimble, and they don't look intimidating. Because of the rounded "nose", santokus should also be more durable that a gyuto (in terms of snapping off the tip). Now, with that being said, they don't really excel at anything, other than making food items smaller than they were before. However, they do this without being intimidating, or too big, and to be honest, I don't hate them. I hate them, for me, but if a good home-cook needs a knife, and only wants one knife, there are much worse choices out there, and depending on the user, perhaps none better (other than a well designed 180-190 gyuto).
 
+1 on profile height and not taking up a lot of space.

One comment I frequently see made by people who hate santokus is "I bought a cheap santoku and it's a piece of junk". I'm sure there are a lot of cheap gyutos, pettys, nakiris, etc that are pieces of junk, too. If you get a nicely made santoku, it's a fun knife to use, especially if you've got limited space. No Rachel Ray required.

As far at tip thickness goes, L->R: Rader gyuto, Shigefusa gyuto, Ryusen Santoku:

taper.jpg
 
Whos to say what should and shouldn't be used. Some may think its odd for someone to use a 270 suji to do most of their kitchen work or a Chinese Cleaver to do 100% of it. I have two decent but not custom or baller santokus - a Moritaka for home use and a Mizuno white #2 that I keep in a small travel kit with a Misono Swedish 210, Kramer utility and Sab Carbon Slicer, that I pop in my bag to do some side catering jobs or private chef work and it comes in handy in certain situations. As for the girlie thing, I've seen some bruiser ass cooks who use a cruddy wusthof or a chinatown santoku time to time out of lack of interest in blades that would disagree.
 
I have this Kansui santoku and love it (full disclosure, purchased many years ago at probably half the price).

I only use it at home, and I reach for it all the time. I have a smaller board at home, so the shorter length works for me. Also the flat-ish profile works well for push cutting, which is generally my preferred method. It's also the first knife my boyfriend reaches for, and just about everyone else that comes over for dinner who gets put to work. The hand just likes to reach for it; it's a nice casual all-purpose blade that works for a wide audience.

FWIW I've seen a ton of Mac santokus in pro kitchens, a bunch of wusthofs too.
 
okay. as far as these statements go as to the effect of, ive seen a ton of santokus used by huge line cooks or ive seen crappy german knives used in kitchens. i mean, its common sense that there is going to be people uneducated about the best tools in their professions. i am looking for something more along the lines of why it is better to use a santoku over any other knife, where the santoku came from, and why do people prefer them.

i do get the fact that they are tall and generally flat profiled. i do like that about them. but just saying some beefy mario batali look alike used one in a pizza shop isnt going to sway my opinion of how girly the knife is. in fact i would probably be the first to tell the guy hes using a girls knife LOL! I know that my mom uses one and she loves it.

i do appreciate everyones feedback though! this has turned out to be a very revealing thread.

as of now my opinion has not changed on the santokus. i dont see any real concrete evidence as to why they are good. as stated in the original title of this thread... it remains a phenomenon!
 
Brad Gibson said:
okay. as far as these statements go as to the effect of, ive seen a ton of santokus used by huge line cooks or ive seen crappy german knives used in kitchens. i mean, its common sense that there is going to be people uneducated about the best tools in their professions. i am looking for something more along the lines of why it is better to use a santoku over any other knife, where the santoku came from, and why do people prefer them.

i do get the fact that they are tall and generally flat profiled. i do like that about them. but just saying some beefy mario batali look alike used one in a pizza shop isnt going to sway my opinion of how girly the knife is. in fact i would probably be the first to tell the guy hes using a girls knife LOL! I know that my mom uses one and she loves it.

i do appreciate everyones feedback though! this has turned out to be a very revealing thread.

as of now my opinion has not changed on the santokus. i dont see any real concrete evidence as to why they are good. as stated in the original title of this thread... it remains a phenomenon!
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Dude, what in the world made you think anybody was trying to change your opinion? You asked why they were so popular, not why you should like them. The fact that you still can't understand why people like them is due to you insisting on using your preferences as a baseline for what others should like (or dislike). This is called being closed minded and ignorant.

Oh, and that car you drive, it's for pussies:saythat:
no offense :angel2:
 
Good one. I never asked anyone to try and change my opinion. But I would believe putting my opinion in my thread would be reasonable. And again I think your santoku was made for a girl. I don't think I've been closed minded and ignorant however. I am searching for the reasons why people but and use these knives. That is being open minded to other people's ideas.
 
Brad Gibson said:
Good one. I never asked anyone to try and change my opinion. But I would believe putting my opinion in my thread would be reasonable. And again I think your santoku was made for a girl. I don't think I've been closed minded and ignorant however. I am searching for the reasons why people but and use these knives. That is being open minded to other people's ideas.
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Brad, I think you misunderstand my point. I would never question your right to state your opinion, in this thread or any other. It's yours, you own it, you can do what ever you want with it. My issue is that you requested the forums opinion, received 20 thoughtful responses (only counting the ones that actually try to answer the original question), many from some of our most respected members, then you didn't just disregard them, you mocked them. That sir is close minded, ignorant, and disrespectful.

:soapbox:

Ok, I'm done, be well:peace:
 
I usually will avoid wasting time on threads like this, but the idea of a certain shape of knife being a "Girlie" knife is absolutely ridiculous. People use what works for them and what they are comfortable with. There are no knives that have gender specifications...

Go BLACKHAWKS!
 
I think Rachael Ray, in particular, had an impact on us kitchen cooks, while using a santoku. One of my first knives was a MAC Superior santoku and I loved using it. I kept it blazing sharp and sliced off the side of my index knuckle a few times while trimming up lettuce bunches in my garden. I learned how to sharpen on stones with it, an inexpensive combo stone, and never regretted buying, owning or using it. I've since passed it on to my sister, who uses it daily, while I've moved toward heavier, longer chef's knives, ks profiles, usually of my own making. I think the majority of home cooks are or would be well-served by a santoku of some sort, and would be as happy as a pig in *&^% with it, unlike those long, pointy knives. :)
 
My santoku.. a Henckels twin series has been heavily used and experimented with when I got into sharpening. .. testing of the various stones and also mirror polishing exercise. Very worn out i terms of blade height and has been tasked to do some serious stuff..

a) opening of durians.. to pry open the durian.. from the bottom where there is a confluence of lines, poke it in and twist it and "spread it apart and what's between them it is passport to paradise"... ( a statement made by AL pacino in Scent of a Woman"

b)To pry open crabs.. removing the top shell.

perhaps the wide nose/tip makes it suitable for this

A preferred knife of ladies maybe.. but it is still highly functional. I still use it from time to time..

rgds
d
 
I think you have too much spare time.
Brad Gibson said:
Good one. I never asked anyone to try and change my opinion. But I would believe putting my opinion in my thread would be reasonable. And again I think your santoku was made for a girl. I don't think I've been closed minded and ignorant however. I am searching for the reasons why people but and use these knives. That is being open minded to other people's ideas.
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aren't santokus marketed by the knife makers in japan towards tourists? since it had such a unique shape it just caught on.

i dunno.
 
I have a crap santoku that i still use often when i dont feel like cleaning my good knives. It is fine for my needs (when its a smaller job) and i can just wash it and let it air dry in the rack, but when I am actually doing prep work for a meal, something reasonably large, then i always grab my 240 gyuto, likely because it is a better knife and cuts better too, but also I am lazy and therefore i can justify taking the extra few mins time to clean it lol
 
MikeHL said:
[...]
Its all about personal preference, if they are comfortable with what they have, then who am I to question their choice of cutlery. Cause at the end of the day knives are just tools that enable us to make/cook great food. [...]
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absolute truth here!
 
tgraypots said:
I think Rachael Ray, in particular, had an impact on us kitchen cooks, while using a santoku...
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Had an impact? No doubt!
But the timeline is interesting. The first santuko I used - a Cutco - and the first one I bought - a Wusthof without kullens -both around 1996, preceded RR's Food Network debut by 5 years.
Point being if Cutco & Wusthof had santukos in the late 90's, they were mainstream before RR.
 
Well, I have recieved a carter funayuki (santoku) in the mail from Kaleab. I'm gonna give this thing a whirl and see what all the fuss is about! It's the first carter I've ever used so I'm pretty excited with that as well. It's super light and thin. I think it's gonna be amazing for veggie prep. It might help me change my mind on the santokus.
 
Brad Gibson said:
...a carter funayuki (santoku)...
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Usually, a Carter Funy is shaped like, well, a funy. Which is very similar to a gyuto. His wabocho is usually shaped like a santoku. Usually, anyway...
Either way, his knives are pretty nice, especially as 'users', so have fun
 
i think very highly of santokus for the same reasons as stated numerous times before, flat profile and tall. just wish they made longer ones. would absolutely LOVE to have a 10" santoku.
 
Zwiefel said:
I was thinking about this recently....and wondering if it was a double-bevel version of the kamagata usuba.
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Just tell people it's a Kamagata Nakiri, which is better than their Santoku.

The first J-knife I bought, I think, was a Tojiro Shirogami Santoku. I still love the thing. It takes a great edge.


Cheers,

Jack
 
The way I see it is whatever floats your boat and works for you then by all means use it and enjoy it whether its a santoku, cleaver, nakiri,gyuto,petty or any other knife that you enjoy using. There is no right or wrong when it comes to how you enjoy using your knife. I have a couple a few Santoku knives and I use them when I feel like it. I have a Shun Premier, a Mac and a cheap Sabatier that I picked up for 9.99. The funny thing is I've been practicing my sharpening skills on this knife with a 1000/6000 stone and a couple of strops with fine and extra fine compound and its now my sharpest knife I own. I'm sure I can put a sharper edge on my Shun and Mac but until I've perfected my technique I'm not touching any of my nice Japanese knives with the stones.

hope this helps !!!
 
Last year I bought a Yaxell 165mm santoku in aogami #2, and so far I love it. It's nice and thin, easy to sharpen to a wicked edge, and holds it's edge very well. It is considerably thinner and has more distal taper than the Rader, Shig, or Ryusen shown in post #35. I only use it for vegetables, so the the whole 'three virtues' thing has no meaning for me.
A santoku is much better for cutting on a board than a petty, IMO. Now that I think about it, it's my petty that I can't seem to find a use for. Too big for in hand work, too small and not enough heel for board work.
 
im currently in discussion with one well regarded jmaker about possibly making a 255mm custom santoku. its a shame a knife like this isnt already in production somewhere as i think there could be a decent market for them. my only knock on santoku knives is that theyre wayyyy too short for my work needs. also, theres alot of profile variation with santokus just like with gyutos.
 
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