A different combination to form a patina? = vinegar + hydrogen peroxide

While looking at the stuff on how to clean wooden cutting boards I looked up the article on paracetic acid, a dilute form is what you get by combining vinegar + hydrogen peroxide. The wikipedia article had this interesting line:

"Peracetic acid will oxidize many metals, and is used for cleaning or creating a patina for artistic or protective purposes."

anyone ever try this?

What's the ratio?

equal I assume, one spritz of vinegar to one spritz of Hydrogen peroxide??

Would peroxide bleach the wood?

Have to cover the handle probably

Umm...I will be getting a shimo...maybe...and need a good patina on it to overcome readiness to rust.
Common elements..will someone try it and report?..Maybe warm the vinegar?

I believe I prefer onion, garlic and blood.

chinacats said:

I believe I prefer onion, garlic and blood.

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So are you a vampire or not?

Lots of garlic so obviously not

I'll do it!
Blood....Suggestions on where from. I had previously thought of getting a lb of bacon and enjoy slicing it up...but that's not blood.
A whole chicken has some blood. A small roast would have some blood. Still, I am thinking that this "some blood" does not measure up.
I do know another knife knut that just this past weekend butchered the family cow. Now, we're talking blood. But, such waste
has been dumped, by now. There's been a lot of drooling over the shimo blades, yet no one has shown their patina. For guys
that like showing their blades, I find this unusual. :eyebrow:

I tried forcing patinas and they don't last. Instead go for layers upon layers of natural. Bacon and chicken(both raw and cooked) will create a pretty patina. I prefer a case of tomatoes as it turns really dark grey.

Here is something about the peroxide

http://straightrazorplace.com/workshop/78283-creating-controlled-patina-2.html

And for blood - ask some Slav with connection to the local ethnic markets - where can they get blood sausage.

Also - to find if a patina is fine for protection - the resulting mineral must be of greater volume than the underlying material. That is how it works for aluminum. Just see what happens with aluminium covered with mercury that disrupts the natural aluminium patina.

panda said:

I tried forcing patinas and they don't last. Instead go for layers upon layers of natural. Bacon and chicken(both raw and cooked) will create a pretty patina. I prefer a case of tomatoes as it turns really dark grey.

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+1 raw and cooked chicken gives a really nice patina.

There's been a lot of drooling over the shimo blades, yet no one has shown their patina.

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That's coz Shimo patinas with ugly brown color. After many patina removals and baking soda treatments some shades of blue are slightly visible. I will try to take a pic of my shimo Nakiri tonight.

For Shimo, I heard that it can take on a frosty off white...which if a lustre appearance...would be cool enough for me..but blues are my fav.
Yet I mostly hear yellow which can be read as rust. Trust me though, I've seen the choil picture of a shimo and I'm a vicarious fan.

FOund this

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pro...-on-Iron-and-Steel-Safe/step5/Rust-the-Metal/

recommends 8/1 peroxide to vinegar ratio so I was wrong about 1-1

wphill said:

For Shimo, I heard that it can take on a frosty off white...which if a lustre appearance...would be cool enough for me..but blues are my fav.
Yet I mostly hear yellow which can be read as rust. Trust me though, I've seen the choil picture of a shimo and I'm a vicarious fan.

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Got one to post? I have never heard of shimo but that doesn't mean anything...

...as to the reactivity, often times you can fix that on iron clad knives by changing the texture of the finish

OK I tried a couple of applications of the 8 parts peroxide to 1 part vinegar to some salt combo on a $10 rather reactive cleaver from the WokShop. (It's kind of a poor mans CCK so with an even more reactive steel maybe.) Here's a shot of the knife as acquired:


View attachment 26622


Here's a shot of the scary intermediate stage - no matter how many times you do it (I did 4 passes) when you spray this stuff on it foams up and forms a really scary red rust but it turns out that the red rust can easily be cleaned with super fine steel wool or a green pad.


View attachment 26621


The end result after a couple of passes looks like this, it seems to be essentially non reactive now!


View attachment 26620

panda said:

I tried forcing patinas and they don't last. Instead go for layers upon layers of natural. Bacon and chicken(both raw and cooked) will create a pretty patina. I prefer a case of tomatoes as it turns really dark grey.

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Yep dark grey cutting cases of tomato's & pineapples.

Nothing really beats the old fashioned way. But it is fun to see *** happens when you screw with stuff sometimes

glc<>What you're doing is essentially rust blueing. The pics aren't working for me and I am very interested in the results you're getting. Normally you have to boil the rusted metal in distilled water to form magnetite.

wphill<>IMO the best patina is from hot corned beef. Bacon works also. But it can't be a missus approved product, it needs to be rich in delicious nitrates and nitrites. Those cause yet another blueing mechanism.

Cheers,

Rick

Yea one of the sites I saw explicitly described it as "blueing". Is this good or bad?

I think if you click on the line called attachment it opens up a window with the images BTW

I tried it on an additional cleaver adding the final stage of keeping the knife in boiling distilled water for 10 minutes after cleaning off the red rust. It seemed to improve the patina but it basically required resharpening the cleaver, it made a really fine OOB edge into a crappy edge. But it only took a minute or two on Jon's 3k splash and go and 6k stone to bring it back to a happy state - only now it seems completely non reactive.

But now I am curious as to why boiling water made a really sharp edge relatively dull (note: not dull in an absolute sense, but no longer acceptable to me ..) Anyone have any ideas???

Whenever you force a patina you are doing it with products that destroy an edge. Always do this prior to sharpening...

gic said:

Yea one of the sites I saw explicitly described it as "blueing". Is this good or bad?

I think if you click on the line called attachment it opens up a window with the images BTW

Click to expand...

Not working for me either. If your attachment link is really just a link to a local file on your computer it may explain why it's working for you. Or it could be a browser-specific issue for us.

Trying to attach again. The first shot is the original cleaver as bought, the second is the scary intermediate stage and the third is the final stage (this is for the cleaver that wasn't boiled in distilled water):

The newly posted attachments work for me.

gic: Cool shots. Appreciate the progression of your work.

When the times comes...cheap whatever laden in nitrates and nitrites. A fresh costco pineapple over and over sounds easier,
but I suspect that the more "natural" patina is with a meat product.

Another source that I consider reliable recommends "just using the knife" (read natural way) and applying j.camelia oil along the way. It keeps the blade from rusting but does not
intefere with the patina building over time. So, I hear.

I think this method is probably the way to go with incredibly reactive knives like the Tojiro ITK's or crappy cheap chinese cleavers, a Kramer 52100 or an old forgecraft doesn't drive one nuts when cutting stuff