First Post & the search for my First Carbon Gyuto

[andrew23]

Hello KKF!

The name is Andrew, and I've begun to work in the food industry since I finished culinary school. I'm from Montreal, and recently begun work at a Japanese restaurant. Last year, I purchased a Carbon Sabatier (300mm). And I really like the knife! But, I want to try a Gyuto, and want to try something at a decent price; although, I have my eye on the Misono Swedish Steel. Would that be a good place to start? Anyways, I'll fill out the questionnaire. In the future, I will probably want to get a yanagiba as well, carbon and at 300mm in length...

LOCATION
What country are you in?
Canada!

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?
Gyuto and yanigiba

Are you right or left handed?
I'm all Right!

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Preferably Western for the Gyuto. Japanese for the yanagiba.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
300mm, I don't like my chef knives smaller than that.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Not at all.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

Around 300$...

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Both

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Veg and meat prep, line work, slicing, I'm not gonna abuse it on bones or hard stuff.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Mexeur&Cie 300mm carbon Sabatier, (I have used a Sakai Takiyuki Damascus 8" Gyuto; way too small!)

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch all the way.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

licing/push cutting.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

better edge retention, better handle/F&F..

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Nothing fancy, looking for performance, simple aesthetics.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

I prefer a heavier knife (like my sab), A wood handle, I suppose. Preferably a taller knife. I could relieve the choil and spine myself, no prob, bob.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Initial ede ootb isn't important; Less wedging would be nice.. reactivity isn't much of a problem, and I want something easier to sharpen

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

I touch up on a fine stone every few days with my sab, sharpen once a month or so, so something like that would be fine

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Synthetic & end-grain boards mostly.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
yes I do.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

yes, always looking to hone my skills.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Sure, I guess. Happy with my Norton Oil stone for now though. It cuts well. Maybe in the future!

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

 

[chinacats]

Greetings Andrew! If you could work with a 270 you would have a lot more options...some do run long...

 

[andrew23]

Well, after using 300mm for so long, 270mm doesn't seem as useful... How is the Fujiwara FKH series?

 

[Tall Dark and Swarfy]

To be clear... Do you mean 300mm blade length or 300mm overall? Because 300mm is one hella blade. You can get them specially ordered but expect to wait many months.

 

[daveb]

I can't offer anything on 300mm Gyuto, I've seen them from time to time but have never looked for one.

You do know that European Knives are measured differently than Japanese Knives? I don't have specifics readily at hand but my 320mm European bread knife is scantly longer than my 270mm Gyuto.

Anyway, by constraining yourself to a 300 you've limited the scope of available knives to (probably) less than 1% of the bell curve. Suggest you try a 270 and consider weight as well as length. I'm 6'1" and I don't want to weild a 270 unless I'm making a case of something into small bits.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Tall Dark and Swarfy]

Tosho has a 300mm Takeda in stock. Rustic with Aogami Super steel.

Knifewear is offering a 300mm Konosuke mirror with stainless.

I'm actually surprised they're in stock. Both are nearly double your $300 limit. Given your stated preferences, be a badass and spring for the Takeda.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[Timthebeaver]

Quite a few options. Yoshihiro have carbon wa and western gyuto in your price range. Masamoto HC and CT from JCK are also in that ballpark. Misono Swedish (as you have identified as well). If you are willing to go direct, Ashi Hamono in white steel is a thin and light option.

 

[chinacats]

There happens to be a Shig 300 for sale on b/s/t right now. A bit over budget but you can trust the seller.

 

[andrew23]

@daveB Well, I mean 300mm blade.

I started learning on a 270mm (10") Victorinox Chef knife, and I've tried smaller, and bigger knives (I have a 14" Sab, now THAT's too much). But, I find that size (300mm) very comfortable to use. Even for small tasks at home, I tend to use it. It's just my preference... I took a look at Yoshihiro's site they have some nice stuff.

So what to people think of the Misono Swedish line? Are they good performers? This knife on Yoshiro's caught my eye. http://echefknife.com/gyutou-high-carbon-japanese-chef-knife.html they offer an 11.8" gyuto.. Would this be a good buy?

 

[aboynamedsuita]

@daveB Well, I mean 300mm blade.

I started learning on a 270mm (10") Victorinox Chef knife, and I've tried smaller, and bigger knives (I have a 14" Sab, now THAT's too much). But, I find that size (300mm) very comfortable to use. Even for small tasks at home, I tend to use it. It's just my preference... I took a look at Yoshihiro's site they have some nice stuff.

So what to people think of the Misono Swedish line? Are they good performers? This knife on Yoshiro's caught my eye. http://echefknife.com/gyutou-high-carbon-japanese-chef-knife.html they offer an 11.8" gyuto.. Would this be a good buy?

Welcome,

I have a fair amount of the Misono EU Swedish Steel knives (some say EU, others not, but I have been told that Misono just changed the engraving at some point but the steel is still the same). I happen to have the (left handed) 300mm Gyuto (with THE DRAGON).
View attachment 26790

I cannot speak from the perspective of a proefessional chef, but I feel they provide excellent value and acceptable performance. I make sauerkraut at home (chop cabbage by hand) and I put it to the test of 8 kg of cabbage against my Takamura Pro 240mm, Murray Carter High Grade 275mm (and ZK 52100 10' on a separate occasion).


I surprizingly found the food release the best on the Misono Swedish Steel Gyuto (perhaps because it is 70/30?). At any rate they are reactive so I always force a patina before use.

 

[preizzo]

Have one fujiwara 300mm gyuto and it s a beauty.
I am selling it and if are interest just contact me.

 

[andrew23]

Hmm, I sent you a PM, preizzo... But I have been looking at the Misono for quite some time, though. Was unsure about it though, not having handled one before. The Hagane caught my eye though. What's the blade height of the blade on the Misono? The 270mm has 56mm blade height, so I found on Japanesechefknives.com. Are they a good retailer?

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Hmm, I sent you a PM, preizzo... But I have been looking at the Misono for quite some time, though. Was unsure about it though, not having handled one before. The Hagane caught my eye though. What's the blade height of the blade on the Misono? The 270mm has 56mm blade height, so I found on Japanesechefknives.com. Are they a good retailer?

JCK seems to be a fairly common name around here, it's where I've ordered from. I'm in Canada too and haven't had any issues with deliveries (anyone who has received a "gift" will know what I'm talking about.

My 300mm is 60-61mm blade height. I haven't seen them on the site, but you can email Koki and they sell a saya (~$25usd) for the 300 gyuto. I also have a 300 Sujihiki and 360 gyuto in the works at the moment. Mine are special order because I'm left handed and and I wanted the dragon engraving.

I should have also mentioned in my precious post that IMO the Misono overall performed the best (least wedging and cabbage slices just popped off the blade). The spine is slightly rounded (enough to use it as a board scraper with ease) but the heel/choil is rather sharp and I would imagine if you are using it for sustained periods of time you would want to do something about that.

 

[andrew23]

Well, I think the Misono is the winner then! Once I get my paycheck, I think I'll get it. 360mm is quite a lot of knife! Any reason you want that size? the 360mm Sab I have is simply too heavy to use regularly, but, I'd imagine that a Misono in the same size is probably half the weight.. it's blade height is 7.1cm and 7mm at the thickest part of the spine! 2mm at the tip. It sure is beefy!

The 300mm I use is currently 60mm now, so it's pretty close now.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Well, I think the Misono is the winner then! Once I get my paycheck, I think I'll get it. 360mm is quite a lot of knife! Any reason you want that size? the 360mm Sab I have is simply too heavy to use regularly, but, I'd imagine that a Misono in the same size is probably half the weight.. it's blade height is 7.1cm and 7mm at the thickest part of the spine! 2mm at the tip. It sure is beefy!

The 300mm I use is currently 60mm now, so it's pretty close now.

I wanted a BAMF and this one fit the bill. It certainly won't see as much use as the others due to its size, I would eventually like to rehandle it and keep on display with some other finer knives. I don't find the 300 unwieldy at all even as a home cook.

The Swedish CS has a reputation for being reactive so a forced patina is a probably good idea, especially in a commercial environment. Also the stock knife is for right hand use by default, so take note if you're a lefty like me. I paid extra to get the left hand versions although some will just make do and sharpen; I read Dave's post about asymmetrical bevels and in hindsight am glad I paid for the left hand versions.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Sorry I should have read the questionnaire closer to see you're right handed

 

[petefromNY]

300 mm is GIGANTIC. I would for sure open up the options to 270 theres a few knife stores in canada, why dont you stop in see what feels good to you

 

[andrew23]

Well, there's Emoleur in Montreal, but that's all I know for knife shops. As I said, I've used various sizes, and I just grew fond of using 300mm. I've grown accustomed to it... I'll be sure to read up on the asymmetrical bevels before I make the purchase. How did you force a patina, tjangula? Hot Vinegar? Mustard? I played with both a bit on my Sab, but the patina seems to change quite a bit with use, but no heavy staining. Is that what I am looking for?

 

[gic]

The dragon is a lot of fun, takes an insanely sharp edge and sharpens easily as well...

but reactive as %$^*. Definitely force a patina, I'm home cook and even i didn't want to use one until i put a patina on it.

you can try rakuten global to get one from a vendor in Japan, not sure about customs to europe though, doesn't Korin have a French office??

 

[aboynamedsuita]

How did you force a patina, tjangula? Hot Vinegar? Mustard? I played with both a bit on my Sab, but the patina seems to change quite a bit with use, but no heavy staining. Is that what I am looking for?

After washing with soap & water, I rubbed for several minutes with picking vinegar (including handle and bolster), I then washed and dried again. Once dry I apply Hellmann's mayonnaise on the entire knife (tang is also CS) and let sit for several hours, then wash & dry again. Repeat process but this time lay the other side down.

It looks like it's rusting terribly as the mayo turns brown and glossy, but it seems to give a nice dark patina that helps in the interim until one develops from regular use. I've heard it's a combination of the moisture, acid, and oil which work well in this method.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

This thread shows a before/after pic of the Santoku I recently did.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7655-Show-your-newest-knife-buy?p=344610#post344610

I currently have a 165mm yo-Deba on its way and will try remember to document the process with pics. I opted out of the dragon engraving for this one since it's small and didn't want to wait ~45 days.