Keeping the angle

[Cheliodas]

I got all the basics of sharping on a whetstone but how do people keep the angle steady while going up and down on the whetstone? I have been sharping for a while and i dont know if i have sharpen the angle correctly, and feel like i am wasting my knife's potential. I intend to buy a rubber sharpening holder to aid me but still i would like to be able to do it myself.

 

[refcast]

One neat thing I tried is sharpen on a counter top. While sharpening, rest some of your hand on the countertop or sharpening stone while you move. Other than that, it's muscle control and getting used to the posture.

 

[lemeneid]

Sharpie trick always. If you’re not confident you’re angles are consistent then use a sharpie to monitor your progress.

Sure it’s more for thinning but it can be made to check for consistent angles too.

 

[milkbaby]

Also practice, practice, practice.

I find it easier to maintain the angle when using the Japanese style "scrubbing" motion of going back and forth on the stone alternating edge trailing with edge leading strokes. Some people only do edge trailing or only edge leading strokes, both of which can work but also require them to lift the knife from the stone at the end of the stroke and find the correct angle again when starting the next. Scrubbing back and forth keeps the knife in contact and as long as you don't wobble should keep the angle consistent.

 

[milkbaby]

[duplicate deleted]

 

[PC315]

Do people ever use angle guides when they are starting out?

 

[gman]

a couple hundred hours of practice is a good start

 

[krx927]

Do people ever use angle guides when they are starting out?

I did not find them particularly good. The biggest problem is at the curve towards the tip. Just try to learn without it. After sharpening 10 knives you will already be quite good at it.

I also use one simple method (when using the Japanese style "scrubbing" motion, like Milkbaby called it): I put my index finger between stone and the blade. In this way I am keeping the same angle (or thumb when sharpening left side of the blade). But this is a bit tricky as you also "sharpen" your fingers For me this is no problem with regular sharpening starting at 1000 grit. But it can get nasty with coarser stones or diamond stones.

 

[K813zra]

Sharpie and practice, I agree. It really does become muscle memory pretty quickly.

 

[JustinP]

I'm pretty much a noob at this too, but another thing to consider is your body position. The right body position and standing angle helps me maintain even strokes. Just like working at cutting board with a knife.

 

[Benuser]

I use the scrubbing as well, until the final stropping and deburring.
When I started sharpening I've cut a few corks with an inclination that corresponds to common sharpening angles. Say 6, 8, 12, 15, 20°. Just for reference.

And use the marker trick, and a loupe, to make sure not to overlook a micro-bevel with an unknown knife.

 

[adam92]

Sharpie trick always. If you’re not confident you’re angles are consistent then use a sharpie to monitor your progress.

Sure it’s more for thinning but it can be made to check for consistent angles too.

+1 agree with the marker trick which is teach by jon, very useful trick.

 

[adam92]

I got all the basics of sharping on a whetstone but how do people keep the angle steady while going up and down on the whetstone? I have been sharping for a while and i dont know if i have sharpen the angle correctly, and feel like i am wasting my knife's potential. I intend to buy a rubber sharpening holder to aid me but still i would like to be able to do it myself.

I also have the keep angle problem before when i sharpen back side , what i do now is sharpen back 1st before sharpening front side ,i found out this quite useful to train your hand steady , angle rubber Actually not useful , practice more you will getting better .

 

[PC315]

I was originally scared of putting sharpie on the knife due to chemicals and the like. But I guess most of it gets taken off anyways by the stone

 

[Benuser]

You remove it with alcohol.

 

[Ruso]

Comes down to muscle memory, thats basically it.

 

[nutmeg]

Comes down to muscle memory, thats basically it.

My best angle control was when I used to practice sport and a lot of swimming pool.

If you‘re not confident, use fine stones, little pressure and the most important tool: your eyes and control the blade often when sharpening.

 

[nutmeg]

The sound is important too. Begin flat and raise the angle. As soon as it starts to sounds different, you‘re in the zone.
But ears can confuse you, the eyes won‘t.

 

[Thorndahl88]

When i sharpen, i keep the knife flat on the Stone, and do edge leading strokes, While raising the shoulder til it bites the stone, then i take Down 1 mm lock the wrist and then i have the perfect angle for any knife.

 

[Paraffin]

I use the technique mentioned in the clip below from the JKI sharpening series, where you divide each hand into a different role:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB

The right hand holding the handle (if you're right-handed) is only responsible for making sure the angle you're holding against the stone is consistent and doesn't wobble up or down. The left hand (if you're right-handed) is only responsible for pushing or pulling the knife against the stone. Once you master this separation of tasks between each hand with practice, the pushing and pulling action is less likely to wobble the blade and change the angle as it moves.

As for finding the angle in the first place, I use quick visual shortcut. It's easy to estimate holding the knife at a 45 degree angle to the stone. Start at 90 degrees, drop that down by half. Now move the knife down to half that angle and you're at around 22.5 degrees. I use just a little below that angle for Western stainless knives like Henckels, Wusthof. Now visually reduce that angle in half once more, and you're at somewhere around 11 degrees, in the ballpark for Japanese knives. Just a rough guide, and you won't hit these exact angles. It's a way to visually judge dropping the angle of the knife against the stone in stages when you start out without having to use an artificial guide. After a while, muscle memory takes over.

The marker trick is a good idea every once in a while, to make sure you're getting a consistent sharpening along the entire length of the blade edge. Easily removed with acetone.

 

[Bert2368]

Do people ever use angle guides when they are starting out?

HELL YES!

I DO frequently still use the marker trick, it's valuable feed back on what your accomplishing.

I have been free hand sharpening for 50 years, more or less. And I will still check angles with a cheap set of plastic angle guides on a new (to me) knife when starting out or deliberately changing the existing bevels.

I CAN sharpen just by the feel and sound of the blade being stroked edge forward on most stones- and will usually do this on a "known quantity" blade. But enquiring minds want to know. Sometimes, I learn something new by checking for actual angle rather than just "going for it".

The only "stupid question" is the one you were too embarrassed to ask.

 

[dafox]

Comes down to muscle memory, thats basically it.

Or acetone but acetone can remove the ink used to print on the blade, dies alcohol do the same thing?

 

[Bert2368]

Oops, double post-

 

[Bert2368]

Or acetone but acetone can remove the ink used to print on the blade, dies alcohol do the same thing?

Many blades are LASER etched, nothing is taking that off except abrasives.

Most "permanent" marker inks will come off from skin oils in your sweat, you can just rub small marks off with your fingers.

Alcohols are effective for removing many marker inks from impermeable surfaces, either denatured ethanol or isopropyl "rubbing alcohol" from the drug store work fine in my experience- Methanol too, but it's more toxic to breathe.

Acetone works well, but I would rather not breathe the fumes. Plus, it drys your skin out badly.

D-Limenone in citrus hand cleaners take these inks off well too. But- Do NOT use those types of hand cleaners which include PUMICE or other abrasives on steel! I WRECKED a 2 cycle engine's piston rings once by cleaning the air filter with such an abrasive containing hand cleaner.

Brake cleaners ("Brakelean") containing chlorinated hydrocarbons works REALLY well, but you fingers will be so dry afterwards that the skin will split open.

If you are so foolish/ignorant as to HEAT such a chlorinated hydrocarbon metal cleaner afterwards, welcome to a WWI level chemical weapons attack type death. Several mechanics have DIED from phosgene gas poisoning after using an acetylene torch on Brakelean contaminated steel parts too soon after such a cleaning.

https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html


Live and learn... Fail to learn and you won't be around to post about your eXp3r13nc3S on Th3 interwebz.

 

[Grunt173]

Many blades are LASER etched, nothing is taking that off except abrasives.

Most "permanent" marker inks will come off from skin oils in your sweat, you can just rub small marks off with your fingers.

Alcohols are effective for removing many marker inks from impermeable surfaces, either denatured ethanol or isopropyl "rubbing alcohol" from the drug store work fine in my experience- Methanol too, but it's more toxic to breathe.

Acetone works well, but I would rather not breathe the fumes. Plus, it drys your skin out badly.

D-Limenone in citrus hand cleaners take these inks off well too. But- Do NOT use those types of hand cleaners which include PUMICE or other abrasives on steel! I WRECKED a 2 cycle engine's piston rings once by cleaning the air filter with such an abrasive containing hand cleaner.

Brake cleaners ("Brakelean") containing chlorinated hydrocarbons works REALLY well, but you fingers will be so dry afterwards that the skin will split open.

If you are so foolish/ignorant as to HEAT such a chlorinated hydrocarbon metal cleaner afterwards, welcome to a WWI level chemical weapons attack type death. Several mechanics have DIED from phosgene gas poisoning after using an acetylene torch on Brakelean contaminated steel parts too soon after such a cleaning.

https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html


Live and learn... Fail to learn and you won't be around to post about your eXp3r13nc3S on Th3 interwebz.

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