Moritaka - how long?

[Dave Martell]

Yup that's about it Ryan.

 

[Dave Martell]

shankster, yours might be good if you got them up in Canada, maybe that vendor gives crap and makes sure his knives are good.

 

[shankster]

But if I can't tell there's a problem,if there is a problem, and my knife still performs the way I expect it to perform should I be pissed? Is the blade going to eventually disintegrate or lose it's cutting ability? Am I lucky I got some of the good ones?

 

[shankster]

shankster, yours might be good if you got them up in Canada, maybe that vendor gives crap and makes sure his knives are good.

I hope so.Is it worth it to bring my knives back to my vendor and express my concerns and have him check them out?

 

[NO ChoP!]

Well, after reading Daves last post, I thoroughly inspected my 300mm yanagi, and could find no serious defects, zero waviness; next time Salty's in, I'm going to ask him to inspect it as well.

I will say, I own a Takeda as well, and will stick my neck on the line to say that Moritaka AS steel is harder, rusts less, and gets just as sharp; all for half the price. The octagonal handle is nicer and larger than Takedas.

I too have sharpened my Moritaka about four times from the low stones and another dozen from the mid stones and up, and the edge is still as flat as when new....

I am going to say this; the notion that to own a Moritaka means you're a novice, and don't know any better is crap. Period. I notice every infinite imperfection in every knife I own, from Konosuke to Watanabe to my newest Masamoto (people say the F&F is questionable, I say the handle and choil grind are pure crap! [but I love the steel])....

And please don't be defensive of this, but I would be careful slandering a company, could be a sticky situation....

 

[Dave Martell]

To be clear here - I'm not talking about wavy edges - I'm talking about low spots where a heavy handed knifemaker ground too deep in specific sections on the bevels of the sides of the blades....also let's include hammer marks at the edge found on forged knives like Moritaka.

 

[sudsy9977]

I am going to say this; the notion that to own a Moritaka means you're a novice, and don't know any better is crap. Period. I notice every infinite imperfection in every knife I own, from Konosuke to Watanabe to my newest Masamoto (people say the F&F is questionable, I say the handle and choil grind are pure crap! [but I love the steel])....

And please don't be defensive of this, but I would be careful slandering a company, could be a sticky situation....





maybe some knife owners don't know what to inspect, look for, examine........and what's up with the slander comment?.....someone says there is an issue with a product and it's a problem?.....i hate pepsi compared to coke.....what if i said every pepsi i ever had was flat and tatsed like chemicals?.....what is pepsi gonna sue me?.....ryan

 

[SpikeC]

If one wishes to be offended, one will find their wish.

 

[rockbox]

And please don't be defensive of this, but I would be careful slandering a company, could be a sticky situation....

Slander is writing something that isn't true. People are writing what they have experienced with the Moritaka product.

 

[Seb]

I just dashed into the kitchen and grabbed my Moritaka and held it up to the light at the window to check if I could see any uneveness along the blade road on either side - I also ran my finger along the bevel to see if I could feel anything... nothing.

Does that mean that mine is ok or am I missing something?

When I order mine from Akiko I stated clearly that I had head about the issues and that I wanted them to take care that my knife came with a completely kosher edge grind and she said 'Roger that' (basically).

 

[mhenry]

Well, after reading Daves last post, I thoroughly inspected my 300mm yanagi, and could find no serious defects, zero waviness; next time Salty's in, I'm going to ask him to inspect it as well.

I will say, I own a Takeda as well, and will stick my neck on the line to say that Moritaka AS steel is harder, rusts less, and gets just as sharp; all for half the price. The octagonal handle is nicer and larger than Takedas.

I too have sharpened my Moritaka about four times from the low stones and another dozen from the mid stones and up, and the edge is still as flat as when new....

I am going to say this; the notion that to own a Moritaka means you're a novice, and don't know any better is crap. Period. I notice every infinite imperfection in every knife I own, from Konosuke to Watanabe to my newest Masamoto (people say the F&F is questionable, I say the handle and choil grind are pure crap! [but I love the steel])....

And please don't be defensive of this, but I would be careful slandering a company, could be a sticky situation....

+1 I love my Moritaka!!! Even before the mods. it was an awesome knife

 

[Amon-Rukh]

I'm sure that there are plenty of good Moritakas out there--Dave's even said as much himself. That said, as a consumer I'm glad to know that there are potential problems so I can make the most informed decision possible before making a purchase.

 

[ecchef]

I've had Dave kick back 2 Moritaka gyutos with varying degrees of the same issue; a 270 AS extra thin & a 210 damascus. And I appreciate him telling me exactly why and explaining what to look for.
That's a stand-up guy.
That said, I still use them regularly, and because in my experience the steel holds an edge so long that I don't worry about sharpening into the overgrind area. I agree with No ChoP about his comparison with Takeda. Would I buy another Moritaka? Probably not, considering that there are many other options out there that do not come with q/c problems.

Perhaps the communucation issues with Akiko stem from an innate quality of the Japanese not to be confrontational. It's not that they won't acknowledge a problem, but they will lull you into a false sense of security that they fully understand what you are trying to get across, even if they are not quite sure. I'm not an expert on the culture by any means, but I have experienced this in certain situations.
However, a merchant that claims to have an excellent rapport with a supplier should be able to back it up. And of course they should be held accountable for the quality of the product or service they sell.

Ok, gotta go...typhoon is coming.

 

[NO ChoP!]

I really didn't mean to be negative by using the term slander; but Dave isn't a consumer, he's a vendor.... different situation than one choosing coke over pepsi. I was rather suggesting to err on the side of caution, as a consumer has zero to lose. That being said, I believe whole heartedly that Dave has recognized an issue. I think most know that Moritaka is very "rustic", but if it effects its quality, something probably should be said. But, it should be by the owners of these problematic blades who address this to the maker. Trust me, when I have issues, I get results. People need to speak up! If my knife had a default issue, I wouldn't rest until it was properly addressed.

And maybe, just a little, I don't want to believe, as I really like my Moritaka.......

 

[goodchef1]

maybe there should be a rant and rave section here. But professionalism is definitely key here. Threads like this normally go into side taking and defending opinions and character.

I don't own a Moritaka, and this will not keep me from possibly purchasing one in the future because I've also read elsewhere, great reviews on this knife, and $150 is not a bad trade-off for what I expect will be flaws.

most people will do their own research and make informed decisions so I would not be too concerned about someones personal experience or opinions about a company, and/or its consumers.

in general, most people just want a knife that works, and does the job it was intended to do, and some with higher standards will expose flaws.

 

[UglyJoe]

maybe there should be a rant and rave section here. But professionalism is definitely key here. Threads like this normally go into side taking and defending opinions and character.

I don't own a Moritaka, and this will not keep me from possibly purchasing one in the future because I've also read elsewhere, great reviews on this knife, and $150 is not a bad trade-off for what I expect will be flaws.

most people will do their own research and make informed decisions so I would not be too concerned about someones personal experience or opinions about a company, and/or its consumers.

in general, most people just want a knife that works, and does the job it was intended to do, and some with higher standards will expose flaws.

That's just it, for knives that hit the board this flaw prevents the knife from doing what it's intended to to. If you cut food on the board with this flaw, then you get accordion food. If you use more rock or thrust in your cut you probably won't see as much of this, as the part of the knife that does touch the board can slice through the cut, but the knife still isn't working as it's supposed too. So not so much an issue for a petty or suji, but for a gyuto, nakiri, or cleaver it could be a total failure.

Dave, there is one thing I've never understood about this issue; if I'm understanding you right the knives are overground significantly in some places on the wide bevel, which then leads to that section, when sharpened, to no longer contact the board. This seems like it could be fixed simply by thinning the other parts of the knife. Why isn't this a viable option?

 

[unkajonet]

I really didn't mean to be negative by using the term slander; but Dave isn't a consumer, he's a vendor.... different situation than one choosing coke over pepsi. I was rather suggesting to err on the side of caution, as a consumer has zero to lose. That being said, I believe whole heartedly that Dave has recognized an issue. I think most know that Moritaka is very "rustic", but if it effects its quality, something probably should be said. But, it should be by the owners of these problematic blades who address this to the maker. Trust me, when I have issues, I get results. People need to speak up! If my knife had a default issue, I wouldn't rest until it was properly addressed.

And maybe, just a little, I don't want to believe, as I really like my Moritaka.......

Dave is a vendor, but until very recently, a vendor that didn't sell knives. He serviced them. That was his niche. If I told my mechanic I was thinking of buying a Yugo, and he told me that Yugos have problems, he's not trying to sell me anything. He's trying to save me potential (probable) headaches down the line, based on his experience of him working on way more Yugos than I will ever see. If I still decide to buy one, well, that's on me. But at least the mechanic was looking out for my interests.

 

[jheis]

Slander is writing something that isn't true. People are writing what they have experienced with the Moritaka product.

No, actually it would be libel.

Whether a defamatory statement is libel or slander depends on the medium in which it is made (published). The "shorthand" difference is that libel is written and slander is spoken.

Sorry, I'm a lawyer.... :cool2:

James

 

[Dave Martell]

Dave, there is one thing I've never understood about this issue; if I'm understanding you right the knives are overground significantly in some places on the wide bevel, which then leads to that section, when sharpened, to no longer contact the board. This seems like it could be fixed simply by thinning the other parts of the knife. Why isn't this a viable option?

Theoretically this should be something that can be done, I'm just not that skilled to pull it off and it's likely the same is true for the maker that created the problem in the first place.

 

[sudsy9977]

you would have to grind everywhere except that very specific spot....seems like too tall of an order if u ask me.....ryan

 

[Lefty]

Not to mention the majority of Moritaka knives are clad, so thinning is only doable to a point.

 

[rockbox]

you would have to grind everywhere except that very specific spot....seems like too tall of an order if u ask me.....ryan

I just went through this with the knife I made. I couldn't just let the slight overgrind go. I had to regrind the whole knife. It took me about an hour behind the grinder plus another hour refinishing the knife. The kurouchi finish would be gone. For the amount of work that goes into it, you could buy another knife. The fact that moritakas are so thin in the first place, makes it more difficult. There isn't much metal to play with and you would end up with a razor blade attached to some iron.

 

[Jameson]

I wish this didn't bother me so much and I didn't feel the need to make these posts, I'm just so sick of having to tell another person that I can't fix their new knife. Oh and to make matters worse I won't add to their problems so I won't charge to return ship it back to them. Imagine how much money I've lost in postal fees alone, if I told you how much I've lost in being burnt by working on these knives you'd shudder. I'm just tired of this whole thing with them.

Oh your gonna charge me, and I am gonna pay! You have done nothing wrong Dave, and your business spent time and resources (knowledge) analyzing my piece, you need to be compensated for this, at least for the shipping.... I appreciate your honesty in fact. Wish I needed your services more to be honest, but my edges come out pretty darn good (except for this knife obviously).

Thanks for at least venting on behalf... I am gonna try and send it back to the maker and at least get a replacement, or discount on a new knife, as well as giving a serious look to NEVER purchasing another knife at CKTG...

Appreciate the time Dave.

JC

 

[Jameson]

I also want to mention that my problems occurred when the initial edge (not very sharp) dulled to the point where I could see light on the edge, I took it to the stones and after 15-20 minutes of progression, it had little chips everywhere, it will slice paper, but you can feel the blade catch, almost like nicks. Thinking it was just too hard for me to sharpen (previously 62hrc AS steel was my highest) I decided to send it off to a pro, and this thread is the result...

JC

 

[rockbox]

What I don't get is why Mark pushes this brand so hard. especially when he dropped Hiromoto for F&F issues. Does he have an exclusive agreement with them?

 

[steeley]

The forum word of the day is YUGO .
Check your score cards.

[/IMG]

 

[Cookin808]

Is this problem being found in all the Moritakas (both damascus and kurouchi)or just one of their lines? Have people that have this problem attempted to return the knives to CKTG and been unsuccessful in getting either a replacement or monies back? I have purchased a bunch of stuff from them recently and found that their service and response time seems to be up to par. It just seems very unusual that they would blow off a problem of this magnitude if it is reoccuring at the rate in which forum members are stating. Just curious and wanting to get the full story as I was thinking about adding a few of these knives to the collection.

 

[Cnimativ]

Reading through all six pages I still dont really understand the problem. Anyone care to delight me?

 

[bieniek]

If you look at the photo of Moritakas profile. You see the secondary bevel - the one that meets the Kurouchi and goes down until the, lets make it simple, edge.
The problem is, that in the secondary bevel some aggresive sharpener pressed to hard, and only at one point on the blade [or maybe pressed it down to one side of the wheel?] which resulted in low spot not in the cutting edge itself, but in the metal that is backing it up.
As result after first sharpening youre ending up with hole in cutting edge, in the spot where the backup metal is thinner on the sides. Everytime you sharpen, hole gets bigger.

And Daves concern, or one of them, is that the tougher metal part is not going all the way up to the spine, so in the intention to fix it you could literally wear the hagane down and you will end up with soft iron Gyuto.
[hope Im right and that helps]
The photo comes form paulsfinest. I could swear i can see a bump near heel?

 

[rockbox]

If you look at the photo of Moritakas profile. You see the secondary bevel - the one that meets the Kurouchi and goes down until the, lets make it simple, edge.
The problem is, that in the secondary bevel some aggresive sharpener pressed to hard, and only at one point on the blade [or maybe pressed it down to one side of the wheel?] which resulted in low spot not in the cutting edge itself, but in the metal that is backing it up.
As result after first sharpening youre ending up with hole in cutting edge, in the spot where the backup metal is thinner on the sides. Everytime you sharpen, hole gets bigger.

And Daves concern, or one of them, is that the tougher metal part is not going all the way up to the spine, so in the intention to fix it you could literally wear the hagane down and you will end up with soft iron Gyuto.
[hope Im right and that helps]
The photo comes form paulsfinest. I could swear i can see a bump near heel?

The issue is bigger than that. Holes in the edge are easy to fix. The bevel is actually wavy because of the overgrind. To fix the issue, the bevel/knife has to be ground down to the lowest point .