Need advice

[gringoze]

Well finally received my first 4 knives. Can't say any of them were spectacularly sharp OOTB so I tried my hand at sharpening for the first time. Soaked a Geshin 2000 and tried the Sakai Yusuke petty. Was really happy at first, when after a few passes I raised a burr along the entire edge, all seemed OK. Then I used the same stone, back and forth until the burr was gone. Tested the knife and I'm pretty sure it is now duller than when I started. Spent quite a bit of time trying to sharpen and for some reason couldnt even raise a burr again. I have no idea why that would be, and apparently no idea what I am doing. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[deskjockey]

Are you flopping a burr edge back and forth? What angle are you using with your stones? Is the sharpening angle consistent?

My best guess is that you are not holding the angle consistent when sharpening.

 

[gringoze]

The flopping the burr edge went over my head.

I was trying for a 17-degree angle and probably was not keeping it, although it didn't feel that I was wobbling much. The knife being so narrow does make it hard to keep pressure just on the edge, and I noticed myself also putting pressure -pushing- on the knife by way of the spine. I just find it odd that I had a great burr with almost no effort - a few strokes max - and now I can't do it again no matter how much effort I put. Knife is now dull and pretty much useless.

Think I will stop practicing on this knife and try any advice given on my old Wustofs.

 

[Nemo]

The flopping the burr edge went over my head.

I was trying for a 17-degree angle and probably was not keeping it, although it didn't feel that I was wobbling much. The knife being so narrow does make it hard to keep pressure just on the edge, and I noticed myself also putting pressure -pushing- on the knife by way of the spine. I just find it odd that I had a great burr with almost no effort - a few strokes max - and now I can't do it again no matter how much effort I put. Knife is now dull and pretty much useless.

Think I will stop practicing on this knife and try any advice given on my old Wustofs.

Your knife is not useless, just waiting for you to sharpen it. Don't worry, you will get there.

Did you watch the Jon Brioda's JKI videos? Pete Nowlan and Jon's videos in the knife sharpening school (on knifeplanet.net) are also worth a look.

The method that Jon teaches to remove the burr is to use several (I think he suggests using 10 each side as a starting point) light stropping (edge trailing) strokes alternating from one side of the knife to the other to flip the burr from one side to another. This weakens the burr so that a light stroke along the edge (at the same sharpening angle) will break the burr off.

Pete teaches a progression of gradually reducing finger pressure while sharpening to gradually abrade the burr. When I use this method, I can usually feel little bits of burr breaking off (for want of a better description, you feel the knife 'jumping' over them while sharpening) and you can find them in your stone's slurry.

Much more important than the actual angle is that the angle is consistent. FWIW, if you raise the spine off the stone 1/4 of the height of the blade you have about 16 degrees. 1/5 gives 14 degrees. Are you holding the knife like Jon describes? This really helps to maintain a consistent sharpening angle.

Although Wustofs are quite soft, there are a lot of large chromium carbides which can make them quite abrasion resistant and can make the burr quite hard to remove. In addition, they are thick behind the edge, so you may need to remove more metal while sharpening. Not a great learning knife IMO.

Benuser often recommends leasrning to sharpen on a low to medium cost carbon blade and I think that in any ways this is quite sensible. It's easier, so you don't get discouraged as easily while learning. Ant they get sharper as well.

Watch the videos (again if you already have) and have another go.

Go slowly. Give yourself time to form the muscle memory.

 

[Nemo]

The flopping the burr edge went over my head.

I was trying for a 17-degree angle and probably was not keeping it, although it didn't feel that I was wobbling much. The knife being so narrow does make it hard to keep pressure just on the edge, and I noticed myself also putting pressure -pushing- on the knife by way of the spine. I just find it odd that I had a great burr with almost no effort - a few strokes max - and now I can't do it again no matter how much effort I put. Knife is now dull and pretty much useless.

Think I will stop practicing on this knife and try any advice given on my old Wustofs.

Your knife is not useless, just waiting for you to sharpen it. Don't worry, you will get there.

Did you watch the Jon Brioda's JKI videos? Pete Nowlan and Jon's videos in the knife sharpening school (on knifeplanet.net) are also worth a look.

The method that Jon teaches to remove the burr is to use several (I think he suggests using 10 each side as a starting point) light stropping (edge trailing) strokes alternating from one side of the knife to the other to flip the burr from one side to another. This weakens the burr so that a light stroke along the edge (at the same sharpening angle) will break the burr off.

Pete teaches a progression of gradually reducing finger pressure while sharpening to gradually abrade the burr. When I use this method, I can usually feel little bits of burr breaking off (for want of a better description, you feel the knife 'jumping' over them while sharpening) and you can find them in your stone's slurry.

Much more important than the actual angle is that the angle is consistent. FWIW, if you raise the spine off the stone 1/4 of the height of the blade you have about 16 degrees. 1/5 gives 14 degrees. Are you holding the knife like Jon describes? This really helps to maintain a consistent sharpening angle.

Although Wustofs are quite soft, there are a lot of large chromium carbides which can make them quite abrasion resistant and can make the burr quite hard to remove. In addition, they are thick behind the edge, so you may need to remove more metal while sharpening. Not a great learning knife IMO.

Benuser often recommends leasrning to sharpen on a low to medium cost carbon blade and I think that in any ways this is quite sensible. It's easier, so you don't get discouraged as easily while learning.

Watch the videos (again if you already have) and have another go.

Go slowly. Give yourself time to form the muscle memory.

 

[gringoze]

Replies much appreciated. I am going to spend time later today more carefully re-watching a lot of videos. I thought I was doing things correctly, but obviously not. Causing me quite a bit of stress after the investment I made in all this stuff.

The one question I am still left puzzled by, is why in less than a minute I formed a burr along the entire edge - no problem, but now cannot form a burr at all?

 

[bkultra]

The one question I am still left puzzled by, is why in less than a minute I formed a burr along the entire edge - no problem, but now cannot form a burr at all?

Sounds like you have a wire edge and instead of removing the burr you are just moving it side to side. Try swiping it on a piece of cork (assuming you dont own a strop) before going back to the stones.