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Benuser said:
Stropping on stones was meant. And indeed, 30 degree inclusive with the very edge is too steep with this stuff.
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I assume you strop on a fine stone? Say 5000 or so? Does the stropping on the stone give a very different edge to using a micro-bevel?

Is it ok to have a 15dps (or even less) edge if you put a microbevel on? Is that is what you meant when you said don't let the knife ger too thick behind the edge?
 


Thinness behind the edge: with sharpening you move the edge a little bit towards the spine. To give an idea: with a well-maintained knife just behind the edge thickness is some 0.20mm, at 5mm from the edge it will be about 0.5mm, and at 1cm probably 1mm. Without thinning the edge will start to wedge, even if it very sharp. You won't cut a carrot, you break it.
 
Benuser said:


Thinness behind the edge: with sharpening you move the edge a little bit towards the spine. To give an idea: with a well-maintained knife just behind the edge thickness is some 0.20mm, at 5mm from the edge it will be about 0.5mm, and at 1cm probably 1mm. Without thinning the edge will start to wedge, even if it very sharp. You won't cut a carrot, you break it.
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Does that mean that the thickness of the blade behind the edge is more important than the primary bevel angle when using a micro-bevel? Or are they both important?

Also, I'm wondering whether other PM steels also need an included angle of 35 degrees at the very edge? Does this also apply to carbon and stainless steels? Or does it depend? If so, on what does it depend?
 
For performance, thinness behind the edge is far more important than the angle of the primary bevel, whether you use a micro-bevel or not.
A lot of steels perform very well with a far more acute angle, like 25 degree inclusive.
 
Benuser said:
I would choose the Chosera /Naniwa Professional 400, 800 and 3k. The end result is more or less equivalent to JIS 500, 1200 and 4k. I would avoid the Chosera 5k: a bit on the soft side and lacking the response the others offer. Would you need anything after the 3k, you may look for the Naniwa Junpaku 8k.
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I'm thinking of going down the Chosera route. James at K&S has a 400/1k/3k set which is a fair bit cheaper than building up a 400/800/3k set would this be a reasonable alternative or is there an issue with the 1k stone?

Given that I prefer push-slices and push-cuts, is it worth taking some of my knives to 8K? Would I be right in guessing that White 2, carbonext could use 8K? What about SKD-12 and the PM steels? Would it be a good stone to strop on?

Thanks.
 
Nothing wrong with the 1k! And if you have the 400 with it that's an excellent combination. No push-cutter here, so I can't tell. Anyway, the Junpaku is a lot of fun to use and not too expensive.
 
Benuser said:
For performance, thinness behind the edge is far more important than the angle of the primary bevel, whether you use a micro-bevel or not.
A lot of steels perform very well with a far more acute angle, like 25 degree inclusive.
Click to expand...

This got me thinking about what the best angle to sharpen various steels is. I've started a new thread on the topic.
 
Benuser said:
I don't want to polish a soft stainless as it will lead to carbides breaking out of the soft matrix and edge instability. The two strokes per side on rough leather a only meant to loosen the remaining burr. Very different from soft carbons that you may take to any high grit.
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So for practicing on Furis (?AUS6), should I stop at 400 grit or go on to 1000? What about Wusties?
 
I actually had the Wüsthofs in mind when writing this. Stop at 400 after stropping on the same, deburr along the edge on both your 400 and 1k, as far as I know your equipment.
Don't know the Furis, never sharpened one. As for AUS6 and similar, all will depend on the heat treatment, whether you have large carbides or not. Thumb rule: if they are abrasion resistant keep them coarse, if they behave like carbons treat them as carbons.
 
Benuser said:
I actually had the Wüsthofs in mind when writing this. Stop at 400 after stropping on the same, deburr along the edge on both your 400 and 1k, as far as I know your equipment.
Don't know the Furis, never sharpened one. As for AUS6 and similar, all will depend on the heat treatment, whether you have large carbides or not. Thumb rule: if they are abrasion resistant keep them coarse, if they behave like carbons treat them as carbons.
Click to expand...

Is that because abrasion resistance comes mainly from large carbides?

Can I extend the rule of thumb to: "abrasion resistant steels take a lower polish, need a higher edge angle but within those limitations will have a longer edge retention"? Or is that taking the principle too far?

To what extent does the PM process (theoretically smaller carbides?) affect this?

Furis seem pretty soft and seem to form a fairly big burr so I assume a poor HT. Not sure if this translates into larger Carbides or not. I'm really only going to use them for sharpening practice so I think I'll treat like Wusties.

Thanks again Benuser for the benefit of your experience.
 
The rule of thumb was formulated only within the area of AUS6. 440A, AUS6 and 12C27 have a similar composition but may have very different properties. Abrasion resistance is due to (chromium) carbides, yes.
 
I quite like the Choseras. I seem to be able to get a reasonable edge with them. The atona 140 really flattens them quickly. Almost like sanding softwood with coarse grit sandpaper.

I'll just need to see how durable the edges are to make sure that I'm not just getting a wire edge, I guess.
 
If HAP40 (have not) behaves similar to ZDP (have), the usual "just get a king" doesn't apply here (very. very. very. slow. and the edge gets sharp but with a curious lack of bite).
 
Interesting. I haven't sharpened the HAP40s on Coseras yet. No problems on the EP stones. I don't have ZDP but I have read that HAP is finer grained and not as abrasion resistant.
 
Choseras SEEM to be the best for that, need to try one. As mentioned, I'm usually with the "king. works." crowd, not here...
 
One of the things I love about this hobby is the complexity of interactions betwen all of the different techniqes and equuipment.
 
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