Carbon, semi-stainless or both?
Watanabe Price Increase
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Having used both Heiji semi and carbon, both. . . but really, each maker HT are going for different things, which is good and important because people can pick and choose, so we can even have conversations like this.
never mind
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Thank you. What’s the heat treatment that Heiji carbon is going for? Why did you pick his heat treatment over other knife makers?
I just asked Shinichi about the price of blanks and while I did not expect to get them cheap (since they apparently hand forge them) they cost about 80% of a pro kasumi gyuto in the same size. Still, it would be a cool project.
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There was a thread recently with DT working on (albeit monosteel) Sabatier blanks,
where he said it was more 'work' to finish some blanks than make a new knife.
Would be interesting to see what they look like, for sure.
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*note i used only watanabe honyaki, which is supposed to be either practically the same (per what watanabe says on his website), or by honyaki magic, better than his san mai. i think it just depends on overall ht more than anything.
Heiji carbon characteristics:
Edge: the slickest stickiest edge I've felt, which is the polar opposite of say, HAP40 forged by Gihei, which has such a rounded edge--never getting to ultimate sharpness, but also not chipping because it doesn't get so thin . . . at least it feels that way. watanabe is going more toward the HAP40 side for carbon steel, which is really remarkable, as it still has that carbon sharpness. Heiji steel doesn't attempt for that kind of edge retention, it gets just enough, but goes hard on the sharpness ability
Sharpening: pretty enjoyable, though actually, I prefer his semistainless to sharpen, and both teruyasu fujiwara denka and mab were easier to sharpen. i agree with valgard that the watanabe is easier to deburr, as what steel that does come off is just gone. . . its like the steel doesn't like to deform or wear down. the heiji steel feels like you're peeling new steel away. . . so heiji like writing fine hard chalk on concrete like kids do. watanabe like running a wood stick on concrete. kinda.
Summary: It's just cause tf and heiji are really sharp i guess. i know people say it depends on the sharpening ability, yeah, that's true, but heiji just got sharper faster, and then tf is just behind. watanabe is in different category cause the ht emphasizes that tough retention feeling i guess, at least for japanese steels philosophy. tf steel has more retention than heiji, so it kinda gets that rounded "feeling", as its harder. . . sometimes harder steel makes it less immediate in the cut or something.
what i mean by rounded is, if you do a push cut, it takes a little force before it goes in. more rounded, more force i guess. seriously though, i don't know if they are actually rounded, that's just how i can describe it.. Of these heiji IS the softest, relatively speaking. . . does not mean softer is always better. . .but i guess that just happens to be where the sweet spot is. . . but there are plenty of knives that hit similar hardness that feel very different.
Heiji semi:
just add a little roundedness feeling. but still, very heiji like above. just emphasize toward alloy and wear resistance. i guess maybe he treats his carbon harder, becuase it was harder to sharpen. this felt more sandy.
what i mean is. carbon is hard matrix, fine carbides that aren't that much harder. semi is slightly softer matrix chockkk full of a bunch of hardddd, kinda nice size carbides (somehow!!) . at least feels that way. that's what most semi -stainless steels seem to be like to me--a lot more carbide volume. so the chock full of carbides makes it like , you rip the tip of a piece of carbide and it rips out the rest with it, or something like that, but on a finee scale.
Heiji carbon characteristics:
Edge: the slickest stickiest edge I've felt, which is the polar opposite of say, HAP40 forged by Gihei, which has such a rounded edge--never getting to ultimate sharpness, but also not chipping because it doesn't get so thin . . . at least it feels that way. watanabe is going more toward the HAP40 side for carbon steel, which is really remarkable, as it still has that carbon sharpness. Heiji steel doesn't attempt for that kind of edge retention, it gets just enough, but goes hard on the sharpness ability
Sharpening: pretty enjoyable, though actually, I prefer his semistainless to sharpen, and both teruyasu fujiwara denka and mab were easier to sharpen. i agree with valgard that the watanabe is easier to deburr, as what steel that does come off is just gone. . . its like the steel doesn't like to deform or wear down. the heiji steel feels like you're peeling new steel away. . . so heiji like writing fine hard chalk on concrete like kids do. watanabe like running a wood stick on concrete. kinda.
Summary: It's just cause tf and heiji are really sharp i guess. i know people say it depends on the sharpening ability, yeah, that's true, but heiji just got sharper faster, and then tf is just behind. watanabe is in different category cause the ht emphasizes that tough retention feeling i guess, at least for japanese steels philosophy. tf steel has more retention than heiji, so it kinda gets that rounded "feeling", as its harder. . . sometimes harder steel makes it less immediate in the cut or something.
what i mean by rounded is, if you do a push cut, it takes a little force before it goes in. more rounded, more force i guess. seriously though, i don't know if they are actually rounded, that's just how i can describe it.. Of these heiji IS the softest, relatively speaking. . . does not mean softer is always better. . .but i guess that just happens to be where the sweet spot is. . . but there are plenty of knives that hit similar hardness that feel very different.
Heiji semi:
just add a little roundedness feeling. but still, very heiji like above. just emphasize toward alloy and wear resistance. i guess maybe he treats his carbon harder, becuase it was harder to sharpen. this felt more sandy.
what i mean is. carbon is hard matrix, fine carbides that aren't that much harder. semi is slightly softer matrix chockkk full of a bunch of hardddd, kinda nice size carbides (somehow!!) . at least feels that way. that's what most semi -stainless steels seem to be like to me--a lot more carbide volume. so the chock full of carbides makes it like , you rip the tip of a piece of carbide and it rips out the rest with it, or something like that, but on a finee scale.
And where does Hide fit into this continuum?
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I only had a Gesshin Hide gyuto 240mm in white 2 and Gesshin Hide yanagiba 270 mm in blue 1. (again, my experiences . . . have limits and qualifications)
Hide blue 1:
was about as wear resistant to sharpen as watanabe. kinda hard to compare . . .Hide was not as hard, but more carbon, so that's the different feeling there. sharpness is about on par with Watanabe, . . . if not a little less agressive and more on the refined side, actually.
Hide white 2:
was more wear resistant than Yoshihiro white 2 and everything except Watanabe and of course Gihei. it was kinda of a fun knife but to low in height for me. sharpness was almost a tier above Ginga, but i would but like TF and Heiji 2 tiers above Ginga. Watanabe would be like 1.5, almost there. really though Ginga tier sharpness is satisfactory. i'd be okay with that as my only knife. hide is a little harder than the Ginga.
But they are all sharp and shave and cut hair!!! It's just . . . at that top tier, weird stuff happens . . . heiji for instance doesn't cut hair down the middle . . . it likes to grab and shave little white shavings. . .. as opposed to say tf which is the most vicious straight just cuts stuff through . . . a little less nuance but a different kind of performance. I like Heiji kinda of nuance better for my cutting.
As for wedging . . . yeah, super hydrated veggies wedge a lot of stuff. but so far i like cutting everything, including those hydrated ones, with the Heiji over the Ginga i have. . . though they're for different purposes, and i like them both.
Like if i don't want my produce to be 'bent' i use the Ginga (because the thickness slightly bends the produce . . . making it more opaque and softer). so structures are crispest for the thinnest knife. and surfaces are glossiest for the 'sharpest' steel . . . for some reason if i micro diamond polish a 'less sharp' steel up, the cut is watery still . . . and not 'glossy'.
And anyway these are my feelings of 'sharp' . . . . there certain feelings of sharp that i've felt with different types of steel. the tf super - cut. the Heiji - super nuance feeling edge. anyway like i had said in the past, Watanabe steel feels way more stable and confident, and less risk taking. it doesn't want to get 'that' sharp (which is still realllll sharp anyway), so it can get better edge retention and toughness.
For toughness, i like a more brittleish steel with a super compound microbevel . . . i like this compromise out of the things I've tried. it's just thin (as much as i can!!) immediately behind the edge and make the apex a parabola, with like one or two light swipes both sides at 30 degrees, for a double bevel, or higher, or more swipes. . . this is to negate the 'bitey' effects of those more sharpness-seeking steels . . .they cut into things they can't handle wiithout deforming. this works only if i don't do heavy heavy use tasks. carrots are fine. squash . . .i want a thicker or more obtused edge.
Maker's HT varies way more than the own maker between their different steels. . . so far.
Hide blue 1:
was about as wear resistant to sharpen as watanabe. kinda hard to compare . . .Hide was not as hard, but more carbon, so that's the different feeling there. sharpness is about on par with Watanabe, . . . if not a little less agressive and more on the refined side, actually.
Hide white 2:
was more wear resistant than Yoshihiro white 2 and everything except Watanabe and of course Gihei. it was kinda of a fun knife but to low in height for me. sharpness was almost a tier above Ginga, but i would but like TF and Heiji 2 tiers above Ginga. Watanabe would be like 1.5, almost there. really though Ginga tier sharpness is satisfactory. i'd be okay with that as my only knife. hide is a little harder than the Ginga.
But they are all sharp and shave and cut hair!!! It's just . . . at that top tier, weird stuff happens . . . heiji for instance doesn't cut hair down the middle . . . it likes to grab and shave little white shavings. . .. as opposed to say tf which is the most vicious straight just cuts stuff through . . . a little less nuance but a different kind of performance. I like Heiji kinda of nuance better for my cutting.
As for wedging . . . yeah, super hydrated veggies wedge a lot of stuff. but so far i like cutting everything, including those hydrated ones, with the Heiji over the Ginga i have. . . though they're for different purposes, and i like them both.
Like if i don't want my produce to be 'bent' i use the Ginga (because the thickness slightly bends the produce . . . making it more opaque and softer). so structures are crispest for the thinnest knife. and surfaces are glossiest for the 'sharpest' steel . . . for some reason if i micro diamond polish a 'less sharp' steel up, the cut is watery still . . . and not 'glossy'.
And anyway these are my feelings of 'sharp' . . . . there certain feelings of sharp that i've felt with different types of steel. the tf super - cut. the Heiji - super nuance feeling edge. anyway like i had said in the past, Watanabe steel feels way more stable and confident, and less risk taking. it doesn't want to get 'that' sharp (which is still realllll sharp anyway), so it can get better edge retention and toughness.
For toughness, i like a more brittleish steel with a super compound microbevel . . . i like this compromise out of the things I've tried. it's just thin (as much as i can!!) immediately behind the edge and make the apex a parabola, with like one or two light swipes both sides at 30 degrees, for a double bevel, or higher, or more swipes. . . this is to negate the 'bitey' effects of those more sharpness-seeking steels . . .they cut into things they can't handle wiithout deforming. this works only if i don't do heavy heavy use tasks. carrots are fine. squash . . .i want a thicker or more obtused edge.
Maker's HT varies way more than the own maker between their different steels. . . so far.
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Ntxt
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Ntxt = no text?
Roughly
Sharpness*
Tier 1a: Heiji carbon > Heiji semi >TF
Tier 1b: TF denka > TF mab > Heiji
Tier 2 : Wat Blue 2> Hide blue 1 > Hide white 2
Toughness
Tier 1: Hide White 2~> Wat > Hide Blue 1
Tier 2: Heiji ~> TF
Ease to sharpen**
Tier 1a: Heiji carbon > Heiji semi > TF both
Tier 1b: Heiji semi ~>TF > Heiji carbon
Tier 2: Wat ~ Hide white 2 ~ Hide blue 1
Edge Retention
Tier 1: TF denka ~ Heiji semi ~ Wat ~> Heiji carbon
Tier 2: Hide blue 2 > Hide white 2
*two types of sharp
1a: thinner slices were possible with great control and feel
1b: bites into everything indiscriminately including horizontal paper towel; often can't feel the cut in food
**two types of pleasantness
1a: sharpening feel in refining the edge
1b: bulk sharpening speed
Roughly
Sharpness*
Tier 1a: Heiji carbon > Heiji semi >TF
Tier 1b: TF denka > TF mab > Heiji
Tier 2 : Wat Blue 2> Hide blue 1 > Hide white 2
Toughness
Tier 1: Hide White 2~> Wat > Hide Blue 1
Tier 2: Heiji ~> TF
Ease to sharpen**
Tier 1a: Heiji carbon > Heiji semi > TF both
Tier 1b: Heiji semi ~>TF > Heiji carbon
Tier 2: Wat ~ Hide white 2 ~ Hide blue 1
Edge Retention
Tier 1: TF denka ~ Heiji semi ~ Wat ~> Heiji carbon
Tier 2: Hide blue 2 > Hide white 2
*two types of sharp
1a: thinner slices were possible with great control and feel
1b: bites into everything indiscriminately including horizontal paper towel; often can't feel the cut in food
**two types of pleasantness
1a: sharpening feel in refining the edge
1b: bulk sharpening speed
Sry. Couldn't reply on phone app. Got it fixed. Did a test. Ntxt was a code comment back in my college days when I learned all I know about computers. Does FORTRAN still rule?
Bought the 180 pro from the site after seeing the heads up and Just thought I'd share for anyone who might benefit that I found out that the fx conversation was cheaper for me if I switched PayPal to use my bank/credit card fx rate instead of PayPals rate. Total for nakiri+horn upgrade+shipping was 29700 yen or at the time $281.63 through PayPal but after switching to credit card rate (used a card that doesn't charge international fees) it only charged me $273.76 when I checked my bank receipt
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That is nothing new. PayPal always is a rip-off... They benefit twice in one transaction: buyer pays their fax rate, seller pays their fees...
I prefer to do transactions without PayPal as soon as I know someone is trustworthy...
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I never let PayPal do currency conversions, my credit card always has better rates. I skip PayPal all together when buying from an overseas retailer. Like you said though, you do need to know the overseas transaction terms of your card.
