I just bought a new knife and I was asked to tip. I was kind of taken aback.

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I don't know but around here it seems like every other week a restaurant or business is in trouble for not following the law. So it happens here a lot. If an LLC will allow it's restaurant to be shut down for not paying what it withheld from employees pay checks for unemployment and SS taxes to the tune of $681,764 over multiple years. Tell me they are following the rules on tips and taxes. This was the most expensive nicest restaurant in town for many years too.
 
SwampDonkey said:
There is an optional tip button on their website, I always wondered if it was a secret button where good karma would get you a free stone chucked in or something. Obviously I'm not a good enough person to test the theory. Definitely seems like it was part of the web design template they used, I never really took it personally but get it being annoying especially on a $3-400 purchase.

Curious about your decision to no longer buy from RSK if you're willing to speak publicly about it. I've had like 7 good experiences and 1 proper bad one.
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I had several good interactions with Dustin, well before he had a storefront. Then one time there was an issue with a custom handle/knife purchase. Let's say he didn't react well at all to the situation and I will no longer do business with him. I would stop buying knives before he got any more of my money.
 
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westcoastknives said:
They do take phone calls (I called last month) but admittedly the shop is always packed whenever I go in person. I am not surprised they don’t take a lot of phone calls.

I’ll admit the service online might leave something to be desired but Kyle especially at Bernal is a top notch dude. In person the service they provide even though they are usually swamped is always great and never rushed
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To be clear, I don't question their service quality. I have previously spoken to them, including Kyle, on the phone and always had good service. I've purchased multiple knives from them and always got what I expected and promptly.

My issue is with the pretentiousness of requesting a tip for an online purchase that had no personal interaction and hasn't even been completed yet. A tip is something you give after the experience. Not only is it pretentious but, as someone mentioned, I believe it is there to guilt people into doing it, deserved or not.

I've been a working stiff all my life and have the greatest empathy for the working class and most especially service-oriented jobs. Working with people sucks and that doesn't account for all the conditions tossed in on particular jobs. I especially feel for wait staff. Brutal work. I get it. And I am very polite, patient and rewarding to those folks.

But because I am also a working stiff, I don't like my generosity being taken advantage of and that is how this feels to me. This doesn't come across to me as a tip but rather a surcharge. Again, I know you can opt out and move on, I just don't like the upfront ask in this context. If it was really meant to be a tip for excellent service, then send me a survey email with an option to provide a tip after delivery of the product. That I would have no issue with.

Now, I don't know if that's even possible/legal in most places but even if it is, I wonder if they'd take advantage of it or leave it as is?
 
My bad for not catching @mengwong context and not checking location. I still would probably have made a similar, but less directed comment since I would really hate for the average reader to scroll through these posts and think, “ah, smart people just don’t tip!”

Edit: Maybe we should start a different thread since these are 2 separate issues.
 
If you give me good service, I don't mind tipping.

I tip my barber excessively for the couple times a year head/face shave as it is a luxury for me and I also appreciate the skill he has (as true Italian Barber immigrated to Canada, his skill set is exceptional).

I tip waitstaff in a restaurant as they have to work to keep me happy. If you give me ****** service, you don't get a tip

I do not tip at Starbucks or the bubble tea place - I give you money, you give me drink. There is nothing really service about that to me - especially when I have to decide to tip you prior to you actually giving me the service of making and giving me the drink.

If I load your website to buy a knife, you shouldn't be asking for a default tip. Sure, if I interacted with you I might want to tip, but the default should be $0
 
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esoo said:
I do not tip at Starbucks or the bubble tea place - I give you money, you give me drink. There is nothing really service about that to me - especially when I have to decide to tip you prior to you actually giving me the service of making and giving me the drink.
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I just thought of an add-on to this - when you mobile order from Starbucks, you do get the option to add a tip on for something like 2 hours afterwards. I think this is reasonable as it gives you the option to value the service you did get.
 
It surprised me that Bernal would ask for a tip, generally speaking I find there prices to be on the higher side anyway. I’m sure their lease in the city is pretty expensive, I have always wanted to visit the store in person but I hate going to the city these days. I hope they move some day out of the city, maybe there prices will go down a little too.
 
Seems San Francisco is especially prone to these stealth taxes. Are the locals such pushovers? Restaurants and take out places seem be charging a new one on top of the GST. Something like a convenience tax or some such BS. Kyle's explanation is also BS. Places that do this must be called out.
Leaving behind this extreme tipping culture when I moved back to Europe was so refreshing.
 
Face to face, I tip as I feel--and I try to do it with cash--worldwide. Online, I never tip--and do everything I can to avoid taxes, transportation, and duty expenses.

Ray
 
I'm anti-tipping in general, and find this especially gross.

If people are asking to be able to donate, put in a donation link. Don't sleazily auto-'tip' yourself.
 
Corradobrit1 said:
Seems San Francisco is especially prone to these stealth taxes. Are the locals such pushovers? Restaurants and take out places seem be charging a new one on top of the GST. Something like a convenience tax or some such BS. Kyle's explanation is also BS. Places that do this must be called out.
Leaving behind this extreme tipping culture when I moved back to Europe was so refreshing.
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Reading the title, I had a feeling it was Bernal. Not because of anything about them, but because it's in SF.
 
To be fair to Bernal, the online default tip is set to “NONE” so one has to enter a tip amount if one wants to tip.
It is not automatically added to one’s order.
It is also true that some customers call the store and receive excellent service before making their online purchase. A few might have asked if it’s possible to leave a tip.
I don’t tip them, but I’m not offended that they give other customers the ability to express their gratitude.
They also have a tip jar in the store…
 
For me...is it lame? Yes. But won't stop me from shopping there in the future if there is something I want at the right price, it isn't that heinous. Really the only time I would think I would tip a knife shop is if I went in person and they spent a long time helping out for recommendations, or if it was online and they really went above and beyond doing a special request or something like that
 
sansho said:
at a bakery in chicago (lost larson):

View attachment 262153

lol, a non-removable 15% staff support fee is added to the bill. you can see it by hovering over the 'taxes and fees' at the bottom as i have done in the screenshot. i almost missed it and just assumed it was some city tax bs at first.

on top of that, 15% tip is selected by default. that's 30% tip!

a dark pattern. i'm sure many people don't notice the built in 15% and add tip on top of that.

why not just raise all the prices by 15% if it's mandatory? w tf?
i mean really, a cardamom bun is already $5.25. i'm not going to change my mind at $6. they already have me by the balls. and i can't exactly go to the shop next door for one. they sell unusual pastries.

this is just for picking up baked goods. you can buy them online ahead of time and have them set aside for you because a lot of their stuff otherwise sells out early.

i wonder if that support fee gets added on if you buy a croissant in person.
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Do share the name of this place? I am curious now.
 
sansho said:
i wonder if that support fee gets added on if you buy a croissant in person.
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someone's gmaps review:

I have a problem with sneaking in a 15% staff support fee which can't be seen when you are signing off on your bill. All you see on the sign-off screen is a place to leave a tip and then total. I didn't realize I was already being charged a 15% staff support fee or I wouldn't have left an additional tip. It was only after I left and looked up my emailed receipt that I realized I was charged a 15% staff support fee.
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i guess they do charge you the fee in person, and it's even harder to notice in that context. haha

edit:

a response from them to one of the many complaints littering their gmaps property:

Hi! In lieu of accepting tips/gratuity, we implemented the Staff Support Fee to not only provide fair wages but health benefits & 401k. It accounts for the quality of service you receive and the wellbeing of our staff without raising the cost of the actual product. It is not the norm to provide fair pay and health benefits in the hospitality industry, especially for small businesses. Tipping is historically inconsistent and inequitable, and we are happy to support our team in a more sustainable and equitable way.
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yeah, that's fine, but what is the rationale behind not baking (get it??) that into the prices? and why are tips not only accepted but 15% selected by default?
 
sansho said:
lost larson

the sourdough loaf is pretty good.
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it should be at that price, I buy mine at a master boulanger/master patissier and think 5,50 is a lot
 
Regarding food tipping, I am conflicted.

On one hand, I have friends who work in the industry. They overwhelming prefer tips because they make more money period, tax or not. Also sticker shock is a real thing. If a dish cost $$$ upfront, I will think harder about going out or seek alternatives, even though maybe at a "cheaper" place the final total will be close. I need to get out this mental trap for sure.

On the other hand, I somewhat resent the expectation laid upon me when I sit down at a restaurant, to automatically pay more or I am breaking a social contract. It adds stress to an otherwise supposedly entertaining and relaxing experience. With tax/fees added on, the final bill could easily be 30-40% more than marked. You cannot help but feel a little deceived. At most places, the service is not that special to make me feel "served". Bringing water, bread and dishes your ordered to your table to me seems like basic hospitality. Maybe I am just too entitled haha

The simple reply would be if I am too cheap or cannot afford to eat out, then don't. Well I have. Drastically cut down my eating out habit due to cost and this knife hobby really helps in more ways than one.

While I expect the tradition will continue for a long while, I think the situation will come to a head eventually. Every time tipping comes up anywhere online, it sparks a big debate. In the end, it will be wallet that speaks.
 
I wish places would just adapt a fixed service charge that is clearly posted. Removes the problem of figuring out the right amount and free riders (people who don't tip).

SF particularly has a big problem with hidden fees as well. The most common is the "Healthy SF" fee which makes it sound like a government mandated fee, but it's really just a protest against a city bill about providing insurance to workers.
 
Corradobrit1 said:
I guess when you have clueless customers like these you might feel you're owed a little extra.

https://g.co/kgs/eYbKDt
https://g.co/kgs/jZnaJF
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https://goo.gl/maps/mVdZwQr34Pba66au7This is a particularly funny one.


Honestly a lot of the replies are pretty snarky. Professionalism costs you nothing but it makes the owners look petty and immature. One of my favorite brunch places had a bunch of snarky "clapbacks" which really turned me off from the restaurant. Someone gave a poor review and the owner said something like "well I guess you don't like farm-fresh food". Give me a break.
 
service charge? Tax only showing on the bill? make it mandatory to include a piece of paying staff a decent wage and add that and tax(es) to every menu item, when it's law nobody can compete unfairly and every customer can see what the bill will look like when ordering.
 
sansho said:
Hi! In lieu of accepting tips/gratuity, we implemented the Staff Support Fee to not only provide fair wages but health benefits & 401k. It accounts for the quality of service you receive and the wellbeing of our staff without raising the cost of the actual product. It is not the norm to provide fair pay and health benefits in the hospitality industry, especially for small businesses. Tipping is historically inconsistent and inequitable, and we are happy to support our team in a more sustainable and equitable way.

yeah, that's fine, but what is the rationale behind not baking (get it??) that into the prices? and why are tips not only accepted but 15% selected by default?
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Hey so when I get on my "that may technically be true but I know it's not your true motivation" soap box please read the bolded sentence and understand this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
 
MarcelNL said:
service charge? Tax only showing on the bill? make it mandatory to include a piece of paying staff a decent wage and add that and tax(es) to every menu item, when it's law nobody can compete unfairly and every customer can see what the bill will look like when ordering.
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I think waitstaff still want tips ultimately, and you can't really outlaw that. In California, the concept of "tipped minimum wage" already doesn't exist. Minimum wage for waitstaff is the same as anyone else, and tips are additional, and can't be used to make up a part of that.
 
superworrier said:
Honestly a lot of the replies are pretty snarky. Professionalism costs you nothing but it makes the owners look petty and immature. One of my favorite brunch places had a bunch of snarky "clapbacks" which really turned me off from the restaurant. Someone gave a poor review and the owner said something like "well I guess you don't like farm-fresh food". Give me a break.
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Some businesses make it their USP

 
As somebody who lives in SF, the fee's, mandates, tipping etc. has gotten out of control but was also exacerbated by COVID. Pretty much any retail or restaurants relied on the financial support of their customer base to stay alive, and a lot of it wasn't through a direct service or product, it was more of a "do you love us? want us to stay open? the jar is here for you".
 
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