Khao men

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just used my jns1k right now on that hinoura suji and woow well the stone is working super faster (and made a awesome cloudy finish).. so i guess 1k synthetic suits me best as a start.. okk maaaaybe i get me a mystery aizu brick but the suji for example was super crazy sharp actually after the 1k.. i ll try the binsu next and khao and ohira of course.. and il also get the watanabe ai1000 synthetic.. and then i should not buy more stonestuff ;) because i got a drawer full of bricks ;)... but once you start with this natural stone stuff you go over board quiet easy and get more ;))..

nice for the khao men seems to be a good solid quality and 2 stones behaved the same that i have here right now.
 
Krassi said:
Ah nice @jaknil i am glad the stones arrived safe ! ;)
ahh well i passed on the orange one because it would have been to many stones.. well maybe another time .. grey white one is not really fast, but actually makes a nice polish.
i actually am very happy with my 1k jns and will try jns first and then the binsu

is there actually any need for a jns 6k or something before going on ohira and more if i use the khao men? what are you using "khao men guys" ;)
Click to expand...

JNS 1k -> DMT slurry binsu -> Khao men -> Oohira

Perfect
 
bennyprofane said:
But 52100 is also a (non stainless) carbon steel.

How would you describe the orange one, how is it compared to a synth? Commonly one reads that for coarser grits the synths are better.
Click to expand...

I have the JNS 800, which is a soaker (needs 20 mins soaking before use).
This is a very effective stone, and if I need to repair small chips or remove a bit of metal this is my "go to" stone.
It has been so the whole time, and still is. The feedback is kind of direct, and you know metal is leaving the blade. It does not feel smooth. But it is effective as heck.

The orange one feels a lot softer. The ride is a lot smoother. You feel happy when using this one, but it is not removing metal in the same way. Kind of feels like you are polishing more than removing anything. It will take you a whole lot longer to remove a chip on the orange one than on the JNS 800. But great feedback from the stone.
So it will never replace my 800. I think it is a bit higher in grit as well (to me it even feels like 1200 territory).
I am sure it will be perfect for smooting out scratches from a lower grit. I have not yet had to do so.

Hope this makes sense.....
 
@panda.. a stone that could be an aizu ;) i dondt know but i i guess i want to have it ;)

@bagertooth
sounds like a good plan with the stone progression.. actually what i also planned for me..i just need to have a better way to make slurry on the white binsu,, maybe i need a 140 atoma..
but yesterday with the 1k jns it was so easy to make the knife awesome sharp again.. so ill make it sharp and then use the tnats and jnats to polish it more. the mud of the khao men is awesome on a towel or leather and polish the sides of the knife with it.. gives a super crazy teflon like finish!.

...and now ill get me a nice coffee and breakfast and try em on some knifes i have..wellness saturday..yeeah ! ;)

also finally ordered me 2 fujuwara teryasu nashiji knifes (150petty and 180 gyuto) which will be rehandled with handles i still got ...cant wait to get my hands on them..
meehhh i thought i was cured of the knife and stone virus .. but good shirogami and shirogami like steel knifes and mid range natural stones are really something cool and new for me and i dondt regret anything ;)

brick size sharpening stones are always having a nice wellness factor !
 
Also... I use a worn out DMT Extra Coarse with good result. Another thing to try is mud from a finer stone on the binsu. I have used aoto slurry with really great results
 
Ahh ok well my worn out dmt is also a coarse.. also got a worn out atoma 600..
i think the mud from the khao men is nice for it..well i try.. ;)
 
My khao men mud is Ok but not spectacular on binsui. I've had much better results from tenjo, la veinette coticule, and soft hakka. Darkest cladding finish from the coticule slurry, but more small stray scratches too.

Just play around...the stones are good fun.
 
anything that even resembles an aizu should immediately be picked up and reported back on. i would love to get a small aizu as a touchup stone for work. currently chosera 3k fills that role for me, but i like the edge from an aizu so much more.
 
@panda

this one here..thats the "mystery aizu" i got from some auction..... well i bought it actually and its bricksize and sick! .. well it seems to make brutal swarf of doom des todes as its on the screenshot, i got it pretty cheap and well together with the thai white grey binsu and the thai khao men plus this "it was bought to be supposed a blue aizu"... well it seems to have nice white spots and awesome renge like spots

dRXdv7C.jpg


looks interesting with gigatons of dark slurry

! best regards, daniel

and had some awesome grilling in the cologne suedstadt with zetieum...and tons of awesome knifes and sacrificing a bag of carrots and his family plus nice weather plus weber grilling power, daniel!
thanks to
was super very cool super tasty and in the neighbourhood ..and tons of sick knifes! ;) i had around 15 ++ knifes plus my ohira aka and ohira ao renge with me
 
Another possibility which would be equally cool:

There is older kasabori Ikarashi from a vein mined in the between 1930 and 1950 that is supposed to be a lot like Aizu and have incredible shaping power for a natural. If that's the swarf it's kicking up then that is awesome. Good find!!
 
jaknil said:
I have the JNS 800, which is a soaker (needs 20 mins soaking before use).
This is a very effective stone, and if I need to repair small chips or remove a bit of metal this is my "go to" stone.
It has been so the whole time, and still is. The feedback is kind of direct, and you know metal is leaving the blade. It does not feel smooth. But it is effective as heck.

The orange one feels a lot softer. The ride is a lot smoother. You feel happy when using this one, but it is not removing metal in the same way. Kind of feels like you are polishing more than removing anything. It will take you a whole lot longer to remove a chip on the orange one than on the JNS 800. But great feedback from the stone.
So it will never replace my 800. I think it is a bit higher in grit as well (to me it even feels like 1200 territory).
I am sure it will be perfect for smooting out scratches from a lower grit. I have not yet had to do so.

Hope this makes sense.....
Click to expand...

To expand my answer on the orange binsui from Thailand:

I have been fortunate enough to try an Ikarashi head to head with the orange binsui.
It is the Ikarashi which is #1 stone in this link:
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone8.htm

They feel and act exactly the same.
 
interesting @jaknil!
well i was also looking at those watanabe stones.. but actually found this "maybe aizu".. ill see how it behaves.. but seems like a big sharpening brick--- thats so awesome about those medium stones.. they are all super gigant size!

i really liked the good polishing of the white grey binsu and try to get more slurry with it. miles said something like he leaves the slurry on those for many weeks
ill make more tests once the new brick arrives and i think i will stick to a very good synthetic 1k stone and then use tnats and jnats ;)
 
@jaknil do you start with the orange binsui and what is your full progression?

miles wrote me that the orange binsui is around 600-800 and the Ikarashi is around 1000-2000 it says at jns, are you sure they act the same?
 
Krassi said:
and had some awesome grilling in the cologne suedstadt with zetieum...and tons of awesome knifes and sacrificing a bag of carrots and his family plus nice weather plus weber grilling power, daniel!
thanks to
was super very cool super tasty and in the neighbourhood ..and tons of sick knifes! ;) i had around 15 ++ knifes plus my ohira aka and ohira ao renge with me
Click to expand...

Yeah. We had great time. A lot of great knives. The ohira stones of Krassi are wicked sick. My first contact with Jnat. A revelation. I am not good on stones but few passes of those an I got a super edge easily in not time. fantastic. I am afraid of the depth of this rabbit hole, but I think I am about to jump in.
 
bennyprofane said:
@jaknil do you start with the orange binsui and what is your full progression?

miles wrote me that the orange binsui is around 600-800 and the Ikarashi is around 1000-2000 it says at jns, are you sure they act the same?
Click to expand...
As I wrote earlier: I don´t find the orange Binsui to be as rough as 600/800. I find it finer than that as in 1000 or a bit finer still (this is why I guessed at 1200).
I have, as stated in post #74 tested the watanabe head to head with the orange Binsui. They feel and sharpen the same.
The one from JNS I tried at the last JNS gathering aprox 6 months ago. So it might be a little different, but for sure in the same aprox grit range. It could be a bit coarser I guess. No way to be entirely sure.



My full progression depends on the steel and mood, I guess. Not really a strict way that I go about things.
Often I start on the Khao men and go to Takashima and then Aiiwatani. Sometimes I use the JNS 6000 between Khao men and Takashima.

If I need to repair more (but not a whole lot), then Orange Binsui, white binsui (with Khao men nagura), before the Khao men.

If I need to do a whole lot of metal-removing then start on the JNS 300, and the JNS 800 before the orange Binsui.
 
The Khao men looks too good of an opportunity to try a natural stone for me to pass! And I have been swearing by synthetics all these years..
I will share some thoughts once I receive mine in a couple of weeks... Anyone tried the Khao men with pm steels (r2 or 20cv)? I would expect that it would not work well with abrasion resistant steels but of course I could be wrong and the amount and state of mud may influence the final results...
 
Unfortunately my only R2 knife needs sharpening so infrequently that it's not yet had a turn on the Khao men and I don't know what conclusion I can draw from sharpening an already sharp edge
 
After waiting impatiently since 8/8, my khao men finally arrived today - as many have mentioned, very well packed in foam and custom wooden crate inside cardboard. Couldn't wait so immediately tried it out on some cheap but very much used SS knives.

My comments need to be taken in perspective - I'm pretty green here. I only started using water stones this year, mainly Chosera 400, 1k & 3K. The only naturals I have ever used were small Arkansas stones (with oil).

The size of the khao men is great - feels good to have so much real estate. Makes mud instantly even without naguras or diamond plates. I sharpened 3 knives on the khao men and found it very hard to form/feel a burr - something that comes very quickly and easily on a Chosera. Has any one else had this issue or is it just my (lack of) technique? I then followed by stropping on CrO2 loaded leather strop. Sharpness was quite reasonable and I think the stone will fit in well in my setup once I get more familiar with it. A bit more practice required before I work on some "better" knives.

Overall, excellent value for money - even at this early stage. And here opens the naturals rabbit hole :scared4:
 
Don't be discouraged by it not blowing your hair back on the cheaper knives. Give your Tanaka a twirl on it, the stone is soft enough to forgive a little wobble in your technique but the steel is good enough to respond well to the stone.
 
Not sure if you need to form a burr, the edge has already been formed on the coarser stones and you are now polishing this edge. I dont form a burr on my suita and the edge is amazing, unlike anything Ive experienced before on the synth stones. Really looking forward to my Khao Men.
 
@Badgertooth
Not at all discouraged - early days with this monster. I'll wait a couple more weeks before I try the Tanaka on it. Time enough for my skills to improve and for the Tanaka to lose its edge - it's a really good performer and the edge is keeping very well - I treated it to the Naniwa Junpaku when I first got it.

@bennyprofane
I think you're right about not needing to form a burr. I mentioned the same concern to Miles and he responded moments later with a very detailed email outlining suggested progressions and also pointing out that burrs are not necessary nor even desired after 1.5k or so. In my experience, burrs form very easily on 400 & 1k Choseras but far more subtle on the 3k. As I thought the khao men was around the 2k mark I guess I expected a burr.

Guess the only thing to do is keep practising! Learning to use water stones has been one of my most rewarding and enjoyable learnings! Only regret not getting a binsui or two...
 
Looking at ordering a khao and orange binsu, what sizes do you guys think I should get?
 
Full size stones are huge and very cool. With these stones from Thailand they are also affordable. So it is a good option.
But half size stones will easily last your lifetime, som you can save a bit on the stones, and also on the shipping without missing out on any sharpening action.....


If the savings will bring you closer to the next stone, then perhaps do this.
If it is not so important with the extra amount of cash, then splash out and get the big ones.
 
Havox07: Thickness- dependent on your usage frequency and # of knives. I don't know if Miles even sells anything under an inch thick so you should be good there
Length, I'd say at least 5-6 inches long but 8 is a lot more comfortable if you do mainly gyutos.
Width - personal experience but I'm junk at sharpening with narrow stones, particularly wide bevel polishing of gyutos has been disastrous with anything around or under ~60mm width (<2.4 inches). The standard 3 inch width give or take 5mm is much more comfortable

Based on what I was quoted from Miles with regards to his recent batch, I think that you will have no problems getting some dimensions that are very generous for kitchen knives and a relative bargain compared to getting similar sized Jnats

Thanks to this thread, I have 3 Tnats headed my way, excited to get them in!
 
hiho!

@foody wow cool i hope you also have super awesome fun with those monster brick..the size of all the stones is awesome!! my "aizu" is also this size..
khao men and white binsu are awesome stones that i am happy that i got them!

ohh regarding the orange binsu.. is it fast or much slower than a 1k synthetic?

best regards, daniel!
 
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