Khao men

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Thank you foody518 for a very detailed report. The finish you git off Khao Man reminds me strongly of my kurouchi Carter which was finished with Takashima + finger stone made from Takashima. That is - it looks great.

That white-orange Binsui looks very intriguing - did you ask the seller abour it?
 
Hi Matus,
I am thinking your KU Carter with Takashima finish will have finer scratch pattern if compared side by side with my Khao Men finish ...My not so high resolution Handy camera is definitely a bit more forgiving of things like that. I have an Oouchi from Jon that he describes as being similar but a bit softer than the Takashima Awasedo he used to stock, and I am almost positive (will check next time I use that stone) that the finish and scratch pattern it leaves on this same knife's wide bevel is a fair bit finer.

I didn't ask about the White Binsu, but in hindsight probably should have requested pictures of the specific stones I would be getting out of his new shipment. I accidentally dropped the ball on listing my detailed preferences and only requested certain stone dimensions to try and make things fit in my chosen budget range for that purchase. Here are some more pictures of that stone that may provide some more clarity, wetted and side by side with my orange Binsu.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sno_cV6_ZjM66fTAmp3F5jmAsAXc1FOY6g/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwiZznRqXAqdQlBkVmNuSmFBdnM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QLkjvceJXZYEaZo4l1j9crqu4saNIywTQ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15SwNipDvHkjd7Dlj3Y76BxTaBr3tQ6zsLQ/view?usp=sharing
As you can see the, the porosity differs, with the White-Orange being denser and less porous. The black specks of embedded black swarf on the sharpening face of each stone help show this.
Future purchase may be to request a softer orange and a cleaner whiter white Binsu :)
 
Some more (but newbie) thoughts on the Khao Men...

The 4mm variance end to end has proved to be imperceptible in use. Once I start sharpening at the right angle, the "slope" is irrelevant. AND... I'm really enjoying using it too! After comments from this thread, other KKFers and Miles himself, I now sharpen as follows: Chosera 1k > Chosera 3k > Khao Men > Naniwa Junpaku 8k. In fact, for general regular maintenance, I only use the last two stones. Very happy with the results and a great learning experience.

I should also mention that Miles sent me 4 scrap pieces with the Khao Men. They total >465g and I've flattened the smallest for use as a nagura. It's producing a massive amount of slurry.
 
I typically just use the khao men after an 800-1000 stone and it does well. I like to use it before jumping to a finisher, but I have finished a few knives on it and it seems to provide a pretty good edge if the 1k is set well. I sharpen conservatively though, so sometimes the 1000 edge is not 100%, and the khao men isn't really quick enough to finish the edge like say a 4000 naniwa can.
 
Marek, you might be missing out on the point of using a natural stone if you are going back to a synth stone after a natural. Consider finishing on the Khao Men (what I believe Miles does) or getting a finer natural finisher, you can get a reasonable priced Aiiwatani from jns, or perhaps a Suita from metalmaster (google metalmaster ebay).
 
bennyprofane said:
Marek, you might be missing out on the point of using a natural stone if you are going back to a synth stone after a natural. Consider finishing on the Khao Men (what I believe Miles does) or getting a finer natural finisher, you can get a reasonable priced Aiiwatani from jns, or perhaps a Suita from metalmaster (google metalmaster ebay).
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I'll take all the advice I can - I'm new to Nats. The only natural stones I ever had were small Arkansas stones that I used with oil. Using the Khao Men has been a revelation. Initially, I used the Chosera 3k after the Khao Men but was told that was the wrong way around. Then for a few sessions I finished with the Khao Men just to get familiar with the edge it produced. Pretty good IMO. I have only just started using the Naniwa 8K (lightly) after the Khao Men and I think the results I'm getting are better than finishing on the Khao Men. Of course, I could be wrong... I'm the new boy on the block.

I have some new knives coming in soon so I'll be able to explore/play more. However, my spending on stones and knives has been, uhm, well... let's say, enthusiastic of late. The JNat rabbit hole will be the death of me if I stray too close, so for now, I'll stick with learning on the KM.
 
Mark, I finish on a natural Aiiwantani but give it one strop per side with the Takenoko. Gives it that refined edge that immediately bites. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Marek07 said:
Hmmm... I'll take all the advice I can - I'm new to Nats. The only natural stones I ever had were small Arkansas stones that I used with oil. Using the Khao Men has been a revelation. Initially, I used the Chosera 3k after the Khao Men but was told that was the wrong way around. Then for a few sessions I finished with the Khao Men just to get familiar with the edge it produced. Pretty good IMO. I have only just started using the Naniwa 8K (lightly) after the Khao Men and I think the results I'm getting are better than finishing on the Khao Men. Of course, I could be wrong... I'm the new boy on the block.

I have some new knives coming in soon so I'll be able to explore/play more. However, my spending on stones and knives has been, uhm, well... let's say, enthusiastic of late. The JNat rabbit hole will be the death of me if I stray too close, so for now, I'll stick with learning on the KM.
Click to expand...
 
I do not think there is any problem finishing with a synthetic. Use what gets the edges you like with minimal struggle.
 
hiho!

well i tried the jns1k , t-nat white grey binsu, khao men and then directly godlike ohira shiro suita aka renge and then ohira shiro suita ao renge.. well i havent tried the jns6k between but will try this..
the setup i used with jns 1k for start (and then made a very good sharpening with the 1k first so that the knife is actually sharp and will only be polished by the next stones) and t-nats and j-nats and wow i cant wait to get the orange thai binsu soon.. so i really up until now like to start with a AAA syntetic stone first and then go fully with natural stones.. well we did my hinoura junior AS 240mm sujihiki that way (actually zetieum did it and it turned out to be awesome) and the sashimi with it was very cool.

since i have very good j-nat finishing stones those thai stones are really awesome because they are cheap and have a very good consistent quality.. and the size.. wowwww ;)) that makes those stones so nice and fully super splash and go 3000! ;)

seeya, daniel
 
Hey,
scoresa Kaho men last week. I tired it today on my deba on which there was an overgrazing. I stared on atoma 400 to remove quite a lot on material to flatten the overgrind.
1h30. Then I went to JNS 1000 on which I remove the scratches from the atom, made the edge, flatten the aura, and made already a big secondary bevel on the 2 cm at the hell.
The I finished on the Khao men fro which I raised a bit slury with a nagura. Very smooth and ver enjoyable to use! I used it also for micro-bevel at the end. I left a nice edge with quit some bite, refined enough for a deba. However, not a lot of contrast between the core and cladding tell.
I like it a lot! very enjoyable
 
Just ordered a khao men and white binsui, the one that was listed as extra hard. Will be at least a week till I try them out as I'm working away from home. Been pretty happy with my aoto>hideryiama>ohira set up so not sure if these will fit in but wanted to try something new and the price is right. Also have an omura and some kind of really hard (mystery?) stone from the shobu mine that I never use. A razor stone most likely. If Nothing else with the omura and binsui I'll have a full nat progression and aoto type stones are my favorite to play with. Also ordered the bone cleaver just because hehe :viking:
 
Hello Khao Men users!

Has anyone tried the aluminum oxide 1000 grit oil stone from Aranyik? And wouldn't it be impractical to use oil in the middle of a water stone process?

http://store.aranyik.com/#!/Aluminu...Grindstone-8x3x2/p/69562049/category=15740318

I was thinking of maybe getting it with an orange bunsui and khao men. This will be my first sharpening stones, and I'm also considering buying a set of 300, 1000 and 6000 from JNS. I could buy the Thai stones while in Thailand this winter, so the price differance between the two sets would be big. Would be great if someone has any views on the different sets! (I think I will get the khao men even if I go for the JNS set.)
 
Did you ask Miles if that 1k had to be used with oil (no water allowed?)
Do a really really really good job of getting all the oil wiped and soaped off the knife before transitioning to the naturals
If you have a choice between orange and white in similar price range/size, the white with some light slurry kicked up on it leaves a really crisp edge. My sharpening sample size on it is still small but I've been impressed.
 
No, but he said he prefers to use mineral oil on 1000 grit stones. I guess that means it's possible to use water. Orange and white is the same price in Thailand, and you pay per kg. Pretty cool!

Right now I think I might buy JNS 300 and 1000, since I don't have any stones. Then I will get a Binsui and Khao Men in January. Maybe I should also get the JNS 6000 now, but I read somewhere in this thread that it's not good to finish with a 6000 synthetic after the Khao Men. Is that just natural stone fanatic talk or is it true? Have you got any other recommendations for a finishing stone within the same price range, and not a really expensive natural? Or is the Khao Men a good enough finish on its own?
 
Khao men is plenty refinement for double bevel knives. That said if you like finer, there is a lot of love around here for the Takenoko. It leaves a refund but toothy 6 - 8k edge and feels nice to sharpen on if that's a consideration.
 
Also, (please correct if Im wrong) there is not a lot sense in following a natural with a synthetic as you eliminate the advantages of the nat with the synth.
 
Victor said:
No, but he said he prefers to use mineral oil on 1000 grit stones. I guess that means it's possible to use water. Orange and white is the same price in Thailand, and you pay per kg. Pretty cool!

Right now I think I might buy JNS 300 and 1000, since I don't have any stones. Then I will get a Binsui and Khao Men in January. Maybe I should also get the JNS 6000 now, but I read somewhere in this thread that it's not good to finish with a 6000 synthetic after the Khao Men. Is that just natural stone fanatic talk or is it true? Have you got any other recommendations for a finishing stone within the same price range, and not a really expensive natural? Or is the Khao Men a good enough finish on its own?
Click to expand...

IMO if you just get one, go for the white over the orange if you will have a 1k synth. Neither feel as fast cutting as like a 1-1.2k synth, but as long as you use the synth to cut a really clean bevel, the white Binsu follows it really well and cleans it up nicely. I would have some sort of nagura to generate just a bit of slurry on it to help with the cutting action.
I was doing Naniwa Pro 400 (for that clean, even bevel set) -> Orange w/slurry -> White w/slurry (refinement) on a friend's cheap Chinese stainless knives and was pretty happy with where the edge had gotten to.
 
The point of using a nat is getting a certain kind of edge, fine but with some tooth, also longer lasting, you won’t have these advantages if you use a synth after a nat.
 
Victor said:
No, but he said he prefers to use mineral oil on 1000 grit stones. I guess that means it's possible to use water. Orange and white is the same price in Thailand, and you pay per kg. Pretty cool!

Right now I think I might buy JNS 300 and 1000, since I don't have any stones. Then I will get a Binsui and Khao Men in January. Maybe I should also get the JNS 6000 now, but I read somewhere in this thread that it's not good to finish with a 6000 synthetic after the Khao Men. Is that just natural stone fanatic talk or is it true? Have you got any other recommendations for a finishing stone within the same price range, and not a really expensive natural? Or is the Khao Men a good enough finish on its own?
Click to expand...

Do get the JNS 6000!
It is brilliant.
I have it, as well as the orange and white Binsui and also the Khao men.

Sorry, but maybe bennyprofane is right, that you would not that a synth after a nat, but....
Khao men is lacking a bit on some steels, as eg 52100 or stainless.
The JNS 6000 does it all, and you never need to work for it. It is you safe stone to go to.
Beeing a newbee in sharpening, it´s all about having a safe place to go to.
Kind of a reference-stone. This would be the JNS 6000.
Then you will realise, that for some steels the Khao men is more pleasant to work with, but for others you can´t get the same refinement as on the JNS.

Should you get it now? Yes.
If you wait for later you won´t qualify for free shipping unless you buy even more.

And: if in a hurry, you can just do: JNS 1000 and 6000. Done.
 
I agree, the JNS 6000 is great but you probably dont need the Khao Men in between if you use it, you can go straight from JNS 1000 to 6000. There might be some advantage putting the Khao Men in between, more experienced users would have to answer that.
 
HIho!

Well the JNS6000 is super awesome!

I also got it .. i bought it never used it for around 1 Year , tried it and wow awesome.. its like cream ;)

And JNS 1000 is my actually sharpening stone.. the rest is polishing after that. I totally like it! 1k + 6k + khao men and Binsu is a super Combo breaker for everything.. and good preparation for following Suita Jnats and more.
With Jns 6k and Kano Men and even JNS red aoto i have enough stuff for any steel before i use my suitas.

Actually this should do mostly for any kitchen knife ;) i am happy with the variety that i have..
 
Badgertooth
Where would the Takenoko (aka Arashiyama) 6K sit in the scheme of things? Would it be after the Khao Men? I'm currently avoiding my Chosera 3k and going from Chosera 1k > Khao Men before stropping. Doing this mainly to get a feel for the finishing available by stopping my sharpening on the Khao Men. I also have a Naniwa Junpaku (Snow White) 8k but leaving it idle for the moment.
 
Krassi said:
HIho!

Well the JNS6000 is super awesome!

I also got it .. i bought it never used it for around 1 Year , tried it and wow awesome.. its like cream ;)

And JNS 1000 is my actually sharpening stone.. the rest is polishing after that. I totally like it! 1k + 6k + khao men and Binsu is a super Combo breaker for everything.. and good preparation for following Suita Jnats and more.
With Jns 6k and Kano Men and even JNS red aoto i have enough stuff for any steel before i use my suitas.

Actually this should do mostly for any kitchen knife ;) i am happy with the variety that i have..
Click to expand...

Do you use the Khao Men and Binsu after the 1k + 6k?
 
Hi!
Right now i am using JNS1k, Whitegrey Binsu, Khao Men and then directly Ohira Suita...

I am getting a big orange Binsu and a mystery coarser yellow Binsu with pink renge Stuff next week from miles.
And also an Aizu from Japan.. so with all that stuff ia having a lot to test if the 6k is necessary and so on ;)

so binsu after 1k synthetic works very good and i havent tried the 6k yet after the khao men.
 
gic said:
Doesn't the Takenoko use natural stone powder in its matrix so it continues to give you a refined, yet toothy edge?
Click to expand...

This seems to be another synth stone made with natural stone powder: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.morihei.co.jp/?pid=87750213

"By careful selection was natural stone the in the powder blended with several kinds of raw materials curing long quenching, have built a grinding stone close to the natural."

Has anyone used it?
 
Marek07 said:
Badgertooth
Where would the Takenoko (aka Arashiyama) 6K sit in the scheme of things? Would it be after the Khao Men? I'm currently avoiding my Chosera 3k and going from Chosera 1k > Khao Men before stropping. Doing this mainly to get a feel for the finishing available by stopping my sharpening on the Khao Men. I also have a Naniwa Junpaku (Snow White) 8k but leaving it idle for the moment.
Click to expand...

@marek07

I think you've intuitively got it right as skipping from 1k to Khao men will keep you honest as the quality of the final edge is largely going to depend on your accuracy on the 1k. It also gives you less opportunity to undo any good work with interceding stones. I've never seen the point of going to a synth after a natural but my answer regarding the Takenoko is because it is the most natural feeling synth I can think of and I don't necessarily think you'd undo any advantage obtained by sharpening on naturals before if you used it as a strop. But it's all conjecture as I've not tried it, though in another thread, @mucho bocho did and he commended it and he knows his way around the block. I think you've probably also got it right avoiding the Jyunpaku. It's the antithesis of a natural stone. Great for its purpose but I always see it as the final stone in a procession of Choseras and Shapton glass.
 
bennyprofane said:
This seems to be another synth stone made with natural stone powder: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.morihei.co.jp/?pid=87750213

"By careful selection was natural stone the in the powder blended with several kinds of raw materials curing long quenching, have built a grinding stone close to the natural."

Has anyone used it?
Click to expand...

Benny, I got one when I visited Morihei in March. Mr Akirahikari recommended the stone so I was happy to give it a try. He said it was 9k grit.

I haven't tried the Takenoko to compare, but the descriptions sound similar. It feels softer and more coarse then my 8k Naniwa Junpaku (Snow White}but that might be because of the greater feedback this stone has. It does feel more like a natural then my synthetic stones. It gives a polished edge with some bite. Useful to refine a toothy edge coming off a mid grit stone.

It would be fun to compare the Hishiboshi Karasu to the Takenoko. They seem to fill a similar niche.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top