Khao men
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bennyprofane
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I thought the Khao Men is higher in grit, no? Is it comparable to an Aoto?
zetieum
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I am following this thread, but I cannot find on the net the stones you are writing about. I tired on FB, without success. Would someone be so kind posting a link to the vendor? many thanks!
Just look on FB or Google for "Aranyik". I would not go as far as posting a link to vendor that is not registered here on KKF.
Please don't rely on me - the 2k figure I quote was my impression from reading this thread, not from my limited experience with the stone. I certainly can't compare to an Aoto.
I have read that the grit of the Khao Men is somewhere between 2 and 3k depending on reviewer and amount of mud. Miles puts it closer to the 3k figure. Perhaps badgertooth is better able to comment on this.
According to a newish website called Natural Whetstones Wiki, it is somewhere between 2k and 3k but likely closer to the higher end. Don't know their credentials but you can read it here: http://naturalwhetstone.org/index.php?title=Khao_Men.
chinacats
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Not sure of the link but no reason not to post it here...worst case it will show up as "this site not allowed here"
The link to the products is fine. http://www.aranyik.com/graphics/Aranyik-2016-Catalog.pdf
Not seeing any reason to try the stones, I get confused just looking at the few I already have.
There are other forums where they are discussed. Posting those links would be tacky.
Not seeing any reason to try the stones, I get confused just looking at the few I already have.
There are other forums where they are discussed. Posting those links would be tacky.
Badgertooth
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Miles and I got into it a bit over grits because he sticks with his assessment of 'true grit' which I think would be an objective measure of the undegraded particle size. Anecdotally and compared to other stones I own I have this 'feeling' like its 5k and upward even. There is no way I would use it before a Chosera 3k or 5k. I would slot it in after those two and before my final natural finisher.
800 > 3k > Khao men would be plenty for any double bevel
It works well after harder stones that leave crisp, accurate bevels and works well with biggish jumps as you give yourself less opportunity to undo your hard work in getting a crisp edge.
800 > 3k > Khao men would be plenty for any double bevel
It works well after harder stones that leave crisp, accurate bevels and works well with biggish jumps as you give yourself less opportunity to undo your hard work in getting a crisp edge.
Khao men makes me think of ramen, and when I think of ramen I get hungry.
I'm more interested in Khao wimins.
Badgertooth
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Dave wins the internet.
A question regarding the size of the Khao Men. As soon as I got it I tried it out and didn't pay close attention to the actual dimensions.
They are sold as 9" x 3" x 3". In metric measurements that would be approx. 229mm x 76mm x 76mm. My stone came at the nominated length - no problem there. However the height of the stone varies from corner to corner. So looking at the stone from above, i.e. down onto the sharpening surface, the height in mm is shown against the four corners:
71mm ---------------------------------------------- 75mm
72mm ---------------------------------------------- 76mm
Have other owners noted any variation? Side to side is not a real issue to me but end to end seems a bit "out". As it's a relatively inexpensive stone, perhaps I should just deal with it and get used to sharpening uphill and downhill.
Comments welcomed.
They are sold as 9" x 3" x 3". In metric measurements that would be approx. 229mm x 76mm x 76mm. My stone came at the nominated length - no problem there. However the height of the stone varies from corner to corner. So looking at the stone from above, i.e. down onto the sharpening surface, the height in mm is shown against the four corners:
71mm ---------------------------------------------- 75mm
72mm ---------------------------------------------- 76mm
Have other owners noted any variation? Side to side is not a real issue to me but end to end seems a bit "out". As it's a relatively inexpensive stone, perhaps I should just deal with it and get used to sharpening uphill and downhill.
Comments welcomed.
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looks like I got a heavy package waiting for me when I get home [emoji16]
Badgertooth
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Didn't notice anything on my Khao men but my binsu has four choices for sharpening angle. Port, starboard, uphill, downhill.
No biggie, the facets themselves are actually true & flat
Same here. Thats the white binsui. The Khao Men and the orange one seems square enough. No problem sharpening like that though.
If it bothers you, then you can sharpen on the highest end until level, or go to work with an atoma or the likes.
Badgertooth and jaknil - thanks for your responses.
The one mm side to side is imperceptible and perhaps I'm being too finicky about the end to end variation. I actually never noticed it till a friend asked for a photo - it's fairly obvious when you're side on. But hey, the top of the stone is flat and once you set the blade at a sharpening angle I guess it's OK. I'd just prefer a squarer brick. Haven't got an Atoma (yet) but I'll try my generic 400 grit plate. Might be a slow & long process. Or I could prop up the low side...
The one mm side to side is imperceptible and perhaps I'm being too finicky about the end to end variation. I actually never noticed it till a friend asked for a photo - it's fairly obvious when you're side on. But hey, the top of the stone is flat and once you set the blade at a sharpening angle I guess it's OK. I'd just prefer a squarer brick. Haven't got an Atoma (yet) but I'll try my generic 400 grit plate. Might be a slow & long process. Or I could prop up the low side...
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Prop the lower side is an easy solution. Also, I think some people purposely sharpen at a tilt
Got my stones in today! Need some more time to formulate my thoughts on these...I'll try to get those and pics out at some point
Got my stones in today! Need some more time to formulate my thoughts on these...I'll try to get those and pics out at some point
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My white Binsu isn't even either, flat surface though. The Khao Men is perfect though, and what a brick it is lol
My Khao men was delivered yesterday. It looks great! And the glossy sealer used for the sides and bottom makes it even more appealing to sharpen the stone or even leave on the counter top as discussion starter (huge, awesome brick, I just wish I had the space to leave on the counter top)....
Mine came in at 3,625 grams, 23.6 cm long, 8.2 cm wide and have a bit of uneven thickness but noting to worry about, actually I like the "uphill" sharpening...
7.6 7.6
8.0 7.9cm would b the thickness on the four corners.
Splash and go, quick mud building even with just the blade, but Miles provided a small 154 grams slurry stone (also Khao men) for free so I will be comparing the results with and without making mud from the slurry stone
Mine came in at 3,625 grams, 23.6 cm long, 8.2 cm wide and have a bit of uneven thickness but noting to worry about, actually I like the "uphill" sharpening...
7.6 7.6
8.0 7.9cm would b the thickness on the four corners.
Splash and go, quick mud building even with just the blade, but Miles provided a small 154 grams slurry stone (also Khao men) for free so I will be comparing the results with and without making mud from the slurry stone
Graydo77
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Got mine in the other day also, not a super experienced sharpener but damn this stone feels great to work with. My stone is also sloped but put a smal shim under one side and everything's peachy [emoji4]
https://flic.kr/p/Lh1yP9
Pic was intended for what's drinking post but the stones there too [emoji23]
https://flic.kr/p/Lh1yP9
Pic was intended for what's drinking post but the stones there too [emoji23]
Looks like it should be posted in the "what ya smoking" thread.
We need to see some kasumi done with the stone!
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Quick sloppy job, but this is what I've got
https://goo.gl/photos/46s9AJEQYc8fNyWj9
The slurry is usually something like a darker gray but the cladding on this knife is sooooo rust prone, so that shows in the mud over time.
I've got this weird suspicion that something about my khao men or its slurry is accelerating patina or rust formation even faster than what is normal in my sharpening...hope I'm just imagining that
This is my practice/beater knife for natural stone finishes and such... May try to put up a better looking finish picture after another thinning and flattening of the wide bevel and polishing stones progression
https://goo.gl/photos/46s9AJEQYc8fNyWj9
The slurry is usually something like a darker gray but the cladding on this knife is sooooo rust prone, so that shows in the mud over time.
I've got this weird suspicion that something about my khao men or its slurry is accelerating patina or rust formation even faster than what is normal in my sharpening...hope I'm just imagining that
This is my practice/beater knife for natural stone finishes and such... May try to put up a better looking finish picture after another thinning and flattening of the wide bevel and polishing stones progression
Looks like the Khao has a quite a kasumi potential. About the rust - you may not have relised that you have spent more time on the stone + working on the bevel means that you have removed all the patina that was protecting the knife. I have similar experience from thinning & refinishing one knife - it felt like it was rusting all the time.
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Matus - I hesitate to say that is the case. The only 2 knives I've used on these T-nats so far as that wide beveled project/beater knife (carbon core, soft iron cladding) in the picture as well as a 52100 monosteel narrow beveled project knife. These are knives that I mess with on almost a weekly basis practicing sharpening, thinning, polishing, and testing different stone finishes. As such, they indeed tend not to have patina most the time and so I'm used how to manage that during sharpening.
On the monosteel knife, I recently polished up the sides to 320 or 400 grit 3M sandpaper which had it kind of shiny. I sharpened that one with a white binsui with some tomo nagura slurry (after that pass, no problems, no patina) and then the khao men. Every place on the blade face that the khao men slurry covered for no more than a few minutes had turned almost milky white, huge contrast to the polished remainder of the blade face. I've never had that much change to that monosteel knife in the course of a sharpening on one stone.
And then on the wide beveled knife, the cladding rusted faster than I'm used to. I have started wiping after every polishing pass on one side (1-3 minutes) after the khao men though I do not have to do that on other stones.
I had reservations about mentioning this feeling/suspicion but decided to write it anyways in case for some reason this isn't an isolated occurrence or that it's not totally in my imagination. Is there any precedent for acidic inclusions in natural stones? My Khao Men has some streaky white coarser stuff running vertically along one end of the sharpening surface. At any rate on that stone I'll be wiping every minute or two at the longest to try and avoid having problems.
Today I did a little more thinning and polishing on that wide beveled knife. Naniwa Pro 400 ->Thai Orange Binsu -> Gesshin 2000 -> Khao Men. Freed but a little bit more of the core steel towards the middle and front of the knife. Took a few pictures
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JsPVE8ewL1JBiETImGXapiqFqGvifrRGGg/view?usp=sharing This is after the orange Binsu. Mine is definitely on the harder side and acts much like a coarser version of the white. It doesn't shed abrasive all that readily and instead the surface tends to burnish, similar to the white binsu I have. I was hoping it would act more like a bigger, better quality red binsui/red amakusa which I have a small block of and will actually generate something of a slurry/paste. As you can see in the picture the mud is basically all swarf, though with some swarf and a good water buffer you can use this for some polishing. Added a great deal of contrast following the Naniwa Pro 400.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LPlcplSK7_QDhHP_jfrNThuWUJWeiTyg9Q/view?usp=sharing This is the Khao Men finish following the Gesshin 2000. Smooths out the scratch pattern fairly well. Cladding color is darker and core steel color hasn't changed much compared to coming off the Orange Binsu which diminishes contrast a bit though obviously the scratch pattern is actually finer. Hopefully there's a bit more core steel visible to get an idea of contrast in this picture compared to the earlier post. Still forming my opinion on this, but at this time I'd rate the Khao Men I have as something in the 2-5k, maybe 3-5k range. This and another natural I have both remind me of the edge and finish similar to that of Suehiro Rika.
Here are pictures of all 3 stones dry and then wet.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UCKGxNE8Lv4X18zXrJ0dNW5GfEQD_Eb8Fw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h_xpoOZOB7xOO2nSR_of0y0t9BVLHgNgLQ/view?usp=sharing
I realized that I forgot to specify that I wanted to get a softer pastier orange binsu as opposed to a harder one, got too caught up specifying dimensions to fit my budget range. I feel that my orange and white are kind of close together in grit and overall usage.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbHnffjiLSLXaRUYIEFSkVunwmGkwIDmng/view?usp=sharing
This picture shows a slight chip in a corner of the white binsu which reveals a deep orange color so clearly I got a 2-in-1 stone.
I may have to make another purchase to grab a softer orange binsu...
On the monosteel knife, I recently polished up the sides to 320 or 400 grit 3M sandpaper which had it kind of shiny. I sharpened that one with a white binsui with some tomo nagura slurry (after that pass, no problems, no patina) and then the khao men. Every place on the blade face that the khao men slurry covered for no more than a few minutes had turned almost milky white, huge contrast to the polished remainder of the blade face. I've never had that much change to that monosteel knife in the course of a sharpening on one stone.
And then on the wide beveled knife, the cladding rusted faster than I'm used to. I have started wiping after every polishing pass on one side (1-3 minutes) after the khao men though I do not have to do that on other stones.
I had reservations about mentioning this feeling/suspicion but decided to write it anyways in case for some reason this isn't an isolated occurrence or that it's not totally in my imagination. Is there any precedent for acidic inclusions in natural stones? My Khao Men has some streaky white coarser stuff running vertically along one end of the sharpening surface. At any rate on that stone I'll be wiping every minute or two at the longest to try and avoid having problems.
Today I did a little more thinning and polishing on that wide beveled knife. Naniwa Pro 400 ->Thai Orange Binsu -> Gesshin 2000 -> Khao Men. Freed but a little bit more of the core steel towards the middle and front of the knife. Took a few pictures
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JsPVE8ewL1JBiETImGXapiqFqGvifrRGGg/view?usp=sharing This is after the orange Binsu. Mine is definitely on the harder side and acts much like a coarser version of the white. It doesn't shed abrasive all that readily and instead the surface tends to burnish, similar to the white binsu I have. I was hoping it would act more like a bigger, better quality red binsui/red amakusa which I have a small block of and will actually generate something of a slurry/paste. As you can see in the picture the mud is basically all swarf, though with some swarf and a good water buffer you can use this for some polishing. Added a great deal of contrast following the Naniwa Pro 400.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LPlcplSK7_QDhHP_jfrNThuWUJWeiTyg9Q/view?usp=sharing This is the Khao Men finish following the Gesshin 2000. Smooths out the scratch pattern fairly well. Cladding color is darker and core steel color hasn't changed much compared to coming off the Orange Binsu which diminishes contrast a bit though obviously the scratch pattern is actually finer. Hopefully there's a bit more core steel visible to get an idea of contrast in this picture compared to the earlier post. Still forming my opinion on this, but at this time I'd rate the Khao Men I have as something in the 2-5k, maybe 3-5k range. This and another natural I have both remind me of the edge and finish similar to that of Suehiro Rika.
Here are pictures of all 3 stones dry and then wet.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UCKGxNE8Lv4X18zXrJ0dNW5GfEQD_Eb8Fw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h_xpoOZOB7xOO2nSR_of0y0t9BVLHgNgLQ/view?usp=sharing
I realized that I forgot to specify that I wanted to get a softer pastier orange binsu as opposed to a harder one, got too caught up specifying dimensions to fit my budget range. I feel that my orange and white are kind of close together in grit and overall usage.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hbHnffjiLSLXaRUYIEFSkVunwmGkwIDmng/view?usp=sharing
This picture shows a slight chip in a corner of the white binsu which reveals a deep orange color so clearly I got a 2-in-1 stone
. I may have to make another purchase to grab a softer orange binsu...
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_pM1YBWmZL1b4j2Z67RUUGL58uiR38ycAg/view?usp=sharing Same Khao Men finish but with some natural lighting. Another view of the contrast generated, probably a more flattering one at that. Core steel is something in the hazy mirror range, not quite semi mirror (this is dependent on personal perceptions/understandings of those terms I guess). The slight white bumps reflecting in the core steel are my window blinds...
