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WTS Red Flags on BST

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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bahamaroot said:
I don't automatically see requesting F&F as a red flag. If the seller insists on F&F after I offer to pay the fees myself then I walk away. As a seller, I only deal with those I trust or have a relationship with. You can never eliminate the risk 100% in this internet transaction age but doing your due diligence cuts the risks significantly.
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This is the thing I don’t get about all of this. I’m happy to sell G&S to anyone to put their mind at ease, but they should pick up the fees. Treat them as a tax (which most of us are used to paying). I don’t understand why I’m forced to pick the fees up
 
FishmanDE said:
This is the thing I don’t get about all of this. I’m happy to sell G&S to anyone to put their mind at ease, but they should pick up the fees. Treat them as a tax (which most of us are used to paying). I don’t understand why I’m forced to pick the fees up
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Add the fees to your sell price. If you decide on the transaction being f&f or whatever payment method, you can discuss a discount between the both of you.
 
M1k3 said:
Add the fees to your sell price. If you decide on the transaction being f&f or whatever payment method, you can discuss a discount between the both of you.
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Right, but I don’t understand why that’s not negotiable? As long as G&S is being used, the buyer is still protected.
 
Hi Ok__mode__6953, hope all is well.
You asked - What did I change between my two earlier comments?
Shortened but what I think is clear enough -
.......... in order to avoid falling victim to a dispute scam .............
In this you are talking about a dispute/scam

..............from the new member ...........
Here you are speaking of selling to a new member
Different things as I read them. No need for you to explain.

G&S / F&F This I am going to present differently. It stems from past discussions and what is done on this site. In addition daveb's page one, post 20. @daveb which will hopefully correct anything I say or give a thumbs up.
There are 2 sellers, each asking $900 for their knives. and two buyers.
Buyer A messages seller A, and says I wish to buy your knife, but would you sell it to me for $875 as F/F?
Seller does not have to agree, but does. Seller receives $875 buyer saves $25
Buyer B messages seller B, and says I wish to buy your knife, please give me your PayPal info.
Seller B messages buyer B, and says if you agree I will knock off $25 if we do F&F.
Buyer does not have to agree, but does. Seller receives $875 buyer saves $25
Both sellers received $875, both Buyers saved $25
I say yes, a seller can not demand/try to force F&F, but most assuredly can offer F&F.
(unless @daveb states otherwise)
Hope this helps you and others.
Best
D.
 
Perhaps I'm a bit weird, but my response to newer members is basically 'If you want to pay me in F&F that's fine by me but I won't incentivize it by lowering the price for it'. Because I believe strongly that, especially when you're new to a community and don't necessarily know the who's who and whether you're talking to the right person, it's a really bad idea not to use F&F.

So as a much cheaper lesson in life I rather have people pay me in G&S and not get burnt on their next purchase, than to try and set a bad example.
 
Yeah I've done so too in the past, it's just that it requires a level of trust and knowledge that IMO a newer or less active member is in no position to have.
 
More_Gyutos said:
Can I ask by whom? I thought if it happens in DMs then it stays there.
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I used to put in the public sales post G&S price and also a lower F&F price. I was asked not to do that which is fair since it is technically against the rules to mention F&F in the public post. I am not complaining about this. I stopped doing it even in DMs since I wasn’t sure if that would not cause issues as well. I personally think the buyer should pay for protection. It is hard to say though if the seller already considered it and the price includes that fee or if the seller just posted the price and then gets screwed by having to pay the fee. It doesn’t seem like 3-4% is enough to make a difference, but it adds up over time especially when in general sellers loose on the sale already.
 
M1k3 said:
What's there to negotiate?
You don't want to pay G&S fees, add it to your sell price. Buyer ends up paying.
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This would all be fine if some people were not so rabid about perceived flipping. I mostly feel bad for our European members whom also have to pay vat and possibly customs fees. Everyone wants a deal and some keep on talking about cars loosing value as soon as driven off the lot, as if there is any at all similarity between the two.
 
Yeah it really isn’t complicated. Transparency matters. If you put up a used knife for sale $80-100, or $150 over the bnib price without including the details like vat, import duties, DHL cost, etc as an explanation for pricing then people begin to speculate.
People are entitled to list whatever they want for however much they want.
 
BNIB price is absolutely irrelevant for knives that can only be bought on a secondary market. If a maker doesn’t make knives anymore, closed books, has years of wait time or sells out in seconds then retail price means nothing. Who in their right mind would sell kaiju, as an example, for $650, that was the original retail price.
 
BNIB price is absolutely relevant for knives that can be bought directly from the seller with a friendly pm and at your doorstep in a couple of months which is something I see from time to time.
Again, people can list products for whatever price they’d like but this is a giant online community so I’ve yet to hear an argument here on why stifling the discussion of what’s happening in BST is a bad idea.
 
It would be helpful if the forum software could give you a yes/no answer to the simple question “does this email address belong to this member?” That would eliminate the possibility of identity theft.

It would only tell you if that was the verified email, not reveal the address. I would even say it could be a fee based thing, pay ten bucks, have the address verified and then send your payment in. I think it would appeal to both buyers and sellers
 
big D said:
Hi Ok__mode__6953, hope all is well.
You asked - What did I change between my two earlier comments?
Shortened but what I think is clear enough -
.......... in order to avoid falling victim to a dispute scam .............
In this you are talking about a dispute/scam

..............from the new member ...........
Here you are speaking of selling to a new member
Different things as I read them. No need for you to explain.

G&S / F&F This I am going to present differently. It stems from past discussions and what is done on this site. In addition daveb's page one, post 20. @daveb which will hopefully correct anything I say or give a thumbs up.
There are 2 sellers, each asking $900 for their knives. and two buyers.
Buyer A messages seller A, and says I wish to buy your knife, but would you sell it to me for $875 as F/F?
Seller does not have to agree, but does. Seller receives $875 buyer saves $25
Buyer B messages seller B, and says I wish to buy your knife, please give me your PayPal info.
Seller B messages buyer B, and says if you agree I will knock off $25 if we do F&F.
Buyer does not have to agree, but does. Seller receives $875 buyer saves $25
Both sellers received $875, both Buyers saved $25
I say yes, a seller can not demand/try to force F&F, but most assuredly can offer F&F.
(unless @daveb states otherwise)
Hope this helps you and others.
Best
D.
Click to expand...
Yep, all clear!

I think my main takeaway from this thread is that the best approach for selling to someone you don’t know/aren’t sure about is to just not. 👍
 
rickbern said:
It would be helpful if the forum software could give you a yes/no answer to the simple question “does this email address belong to this member?” That would eliminate the possibility of identity theft.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of something similar: a page within KKF where you enter username and payment gateway email and you get a LEGIT or NOT LEGIT response.. of course, it would have to be info provided to the site by the seller. Would be pretty simple to program and would add some buyer protection.
 
Metallicats44 said:
I was thinking of something similar: a page within KKF where you enter username and payment gateway email and you get a LEGIT or NOT LEGIT response.. of course, it would have to be info provided to the site by the seller. Would be pretty simple to program and would add some buyer protection.
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If I owned the site, I would not want to take on the liability implied by the feature, in the current legal climate.

KKF said it was legit, but somehow I got ripped off anyway...sounds like potential lawsuit territory.
 
What if someone does not have a PayPal account and doesn't want to get one? Will a B/S/T post specifying another payment method be reported? Asking for a friend.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
What if someone does not have a PayPal account and doesn't want to get one? Will a B/S/T post specifying another payment method be reported? Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...

I've accepted USPS MO's multiple times. Always worked out great. A little slow but no issues otherwise. Just waited to send the items until I received the MO.
 
Barmoley said:
The other side of the issue is that selling to new members or members with low activity using G&S should be done carefully by the sellers. PayPal very often sides with the buyer, so sellers should be careful too. Even worse to sell G&S to someone outside of the US.
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I'm glad you posted this. If I'm being honest I'm much more nervous to sell than I am to buy. I am reluctant to deal with someone that has very little history on the forum, and I feel kinda bad about that. I hate that I might be blocking someone new to the hobby from getting a good deal on a knife, but because the seller seems more vulnerable, it is what it is...
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
What if someone does not have a PayPal account and doesn't want to get one? Will a B/S/T post specifying another payment method be reported? Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...
On the surface of it sounds like Yes. So don’t specify it in the sales post and talk about the payment method in DMs. Could still be reported since the method will not have buyer protection, but doesn’t mean you’ll get in trouble.
 
Barmoley said:
On the surface of it sounds like Yes. So don’t specify it in the sales post and talk about the payment method in DMs. Could still be reported since the method will not have buyer protection, but doesn’t mean you’ll get in trouble.
Click to expand...
The problem is that a price without any disclaimers is likely to be assumed as PP G&S, and then bringing it up in the DM might appear "shady".

Looking for clarification from Dave or another admin.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
The problem is that a price without any disclaimers is likely to be assumed as PP G&S, and then bringing it up in the DM might appear "shady".

Looking for clarification from Dave or another admin.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely correct and the reason I brought up my concerns and continued with the questions in the first place. The message and policy of using PP G&S as the only safe way to transact sounds like a no brainer until you actually look at the details and think about the consequences and implications for all parties. In an effort to protect nubs and FOMO afflicted we are potentially hurting other groups, but I am afraid there is no good solution here. So discuss payment specifics in DMs and be potentially reported which hopefully can be easily resolved.
 
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