* Remedy Damascus - $400

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Mark has a great opportunity to leverage his collaboration and influence the Damascus market here - but it's up to the other makers to define how much they let Mark get away with.

He's intentionally or unintentionally impacting the other business he has - and he's created a dangerously fluid environment for himself.

By coming in with a $400 price point, he's limited the profit he and his suppliers can make on similar but not Damascus knives in the future, and created a ceiling for all the knives he sells including (not limited to) those from Butch, Raider, Carter & Devin. Did he just push his semi-custom makers and big suppliers of $300+ retail non-Damascus knives away? Does he think his knives can compete with all other manufacturers? Apparently he does! Can he? Only time will tell. I don't think people will stop wanting these big name knives.

I'd love to hear a review on the richM$ond. It would be a good indicator of what's coming. Apparently I can't type that word in now... not a good sign for this Forum.

It might very well be a bad move, considering folks like Takeda and Misono have recently raised prices - and I'd expect similarly marketed products to have a desire to follow suit. How long it takes for him to figure out if it was a bad move is up to his suppliers and competition and how and when they react.

The longer the wait, the more success and less risk Mark will have. He's positioned himself well - like it or not. This will be very interesting to watch, and I'm glad this product was pointed out. Someone might see this as an opportunity to pick up Mark's suppliers one by one and compete with his site.

PS - I'm not cancelling any of my custom orders thanks very much. I'm aware of the difference in quality, I'm willing to pay for quality.
 
I mean no disrespect to those who have contributed, but I think this thread blows. I'd rather catch and STD than read about these issues again. Sorry, just had to vent.

k.
 
In business, I do not spend time, energy or resources trying to shine a negative light on my competitors that could be used to shine a positive light on my business.
 
mr drinky said:
I mean no disrespect to those who have contributed, but I think this thread blows. I'd rather catch and STD than read about these issues again. Sorry, just had to vent.

k.
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Can you say, giant Q-Tip???? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I broke my rule and posted on his subforum in ITK to inform him of the burden of proof for libel, and the difference between someone knowingly lying in written form about his business to do him harm (libel) and someone posting an opinion on his products, practices, and customer service that may be disparaging and might cause his business harm but aren't lies (free speech). I also advised him his time would be better spent improving his products and services than pursuing useless litigation, and that said litigation would only hurt his public image more than help it. Apparently this is not what he wanted to hear, because my comments were deleted immediately.
 
He practically owns that place right down to the moderator. In my opinion, you either play ball with him or you don't exist there.
 
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Dave Martell said:
He practically owns that place right down to the moderator. You either play ball with him or you don't exist there.
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Sounds like another forum that specializes in things tacticool that I know of. Talk bad about any of their padrones anywhere else and they will ban you from even registering.
 
To be fair this was in his subforum, where I think he has moderating privileges, so I don't think it required anyone else other than himself to remove my comment. Oh, and a certain fellow from South Africa was commenting on there as well (/UglyJoe pukes in his own mouth). That dude is gunning for you Dave and a little scary. You might want to make sure the servers on this site as well as your personal computers are firewalled up to the max.
 
UglyJoe said:
To be fair this was in his subforum, where I think he has moderating privileges, so I don't think it required anyone else other than himself to remove my comment. Oh, and a certain fellow from South Africa was commenting on there as well (/UglyJoe pukes in his own mouth). That dude is gunning for you Dave and a little scary. You might want to make sure the servers on this site as well as your personal computers are firewalled up to the max.
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Unless they changed the vendor permissions since I've been gone vendors don't have the ability to moderate posts in their own sub-forums.

MadRookie isn't worth commenting on.
 
/facepalm

This thread should have been deleted as soon as it was posted, better yet, it should never have been posted in the first place. It should be apparent by now that these sorts of threads will just turn into flame fests and that the information provided in the thread will likely be so biased that it would be worthless to the typical forum reader/poster.
 
I don't understand why? The original topic of this thread was if the projected pricepoint of this knife would hurt the sales of many custom makers. This seems like a legitimate topic to me. It's normal business for one supplier try to undercut the prices of other suppliers; the point of discussion is at what cost? Your big restaurant chains (Applebees, TGIF, etc.) have priced out smaller and higher-quality-but-more-expensive competitors for years. Particularly on these forums, which in large part are composed of contributions from smaller makers, should we not be allowed to discuss the ramifications of a product that could potentially be seen as a serious threat to their business? The original run on this knife is predicted to be around 70. How long would it take Fowler or Burke or Dave or Marko to make 70 knives? What kind of impact would this being on the market have on their future sales? This seems like good discourse to me, and if it ends up getting a little mudslingy, well that's to be expected. We are all adults and should be past the point of having our feelings hurt because someone has something not so nice to say about someone else ON THE INTERNET.
 
<Sigh>, haven't we been through all this before without any real result except a lot of disappointment and bad blood? I understand that there is a lot of history behind the dynamics here, and many of us have opinions, but by repeating them over and over again, not much will change. What seems difficult is to separate the comments about the products from those about the vendor(s). I really like the forum here as a place to openly discuss products, and the fact that - as long as it isn't a Fiery knife - most people here try to be critical but not slanderous. I don't see why we have to discuss the perceived personality issues of people here (allthough I would chime in about Bobby Flay...). Several cyber or real friendships have been broken over this, and several people here will never be friends with some others, but we don't gain much by discussing that here.

IMHO, MR made an attempt to conquer the market and that is his right as a business man in a capitalist society. I understand that the way this happened and the strategies have offended and harmed people, but morality and consideration are not the strengths of capitalism. It's everybody's right to be anywhere between disappointed and furious about this and to consider it in their buying decisions, but I don't think we have a right to tell anybody how to conduct his business. From everything I see, the majority of his customers is happy. Overall, MR is much less a threat to society than the people who sell us sugar-laden yoghurt as a health product. Knife stuff is closer to hour hearts than yoghurt, but we also don't criticise the people who make Furi knives - we citicise the knives; we don't get outraged about the CEO of Cutco, we criticize (or ridicule) the knives.

This forum started out as such a great place, and after a few intial venting threads I had hoped that this topic was behind us. If I could wish for something, it would be that whenever that topic startds kindling up, we hold back a bit with throwing wood, oil, or - in some cases - jet fuel at it...

Stefan
 
UglyJoe said:
I don't understand why? The original topic of this thread was if the projected pricepoint of this knife would hurt the sales of many custom makers. This seems like a legitimate topic to me. It's normal business for one supplier try to undercut the prices of other suppliers; the point of discussion is at what cost? Your big restaurant chains (Applebees, TGIF, etc.) have priced out smaller and higher-quality-but-more-expensive competitors for years. Particularly on these forums, which in large part are composed of contributions from smaller makers, should we not be allowed to discuss the ramifications of a product that could potentially be seen as a serious threat to their business? The original run on this knife is predicted to be around 70. How long would it take Fowler or Burke or Dave or Marko to make 70 knives? What kind of impact would this being on the market have on their future sales? This seems like good discourse to me, and if it ends up getting a little mudslingy, well that's to be expected. We are all adults and should be past the point of having our feelings hurt because someone has something not so nice to say about someone else ON THE INTERNET.
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It might have been a legitimate topic for a vendor only or business forum, but that's not where it was posted. It was posted where it would stir up the most controversy.

Also, we might all be adults, but we don't all act like them. This might be just "THE INTERNET", but childish behavior seems just as annoying here as it does in the real world.
 
UglyJoe said:
I don't understand why? The original topic of this thread was if the projected pricepoint of this knife would hurt the sales of many custom makers. This seems like a legitimate topic to me. It's normal business for one supplier try to undercut the prices of other suppliers; the point of discussion is at what cost? Your big restaurant chains (Applebees, TGIF, etc.) have priced out smaller and higher-quality-but-more-expensive competitors for years. Particularly on these forums, which in large part are composed of contributions from smaller makers, should we not be allowed to discuss the ramifications of a product that could potentially be seen as a serious threat to their business? The original run on this knife is predicted to be around 70. How long would it take Fowler or Burke or Dave or Marko to make 70 knives? What kind of impact would this being on the market have on their future sales? This seems like good discourse to me, and if it ends up getting a little mudslingy, well that's to be expected. We are all adults and should be past the point of having our feelings hurt because someone has something not so nice to say about someone else ON THE INTERNET.
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That really is all it has been about and unfortunately, what started as a voiced oppinion/concern on a public forum, grew into a heated discussion, a threat of litigation and gleeful assertion that somebody might have been tapping your computer for incriminating evidence. Kind of exhausting, to say the least. Not worth the time and effort. If I knew it will be like this, I would have never responded, even though my oppinion on the subject has been consistent.

M
 
apicius9 said:
This forum started out as such a great place, and after a few intial venting threads I had hoped that this topic was behind us. If I could wish for something, it would be that whenever that topic startds kindling up, we hold back a bit with throwing wood, oil, or - in some cases - jet fuel at it...

Stefan
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Well said Stefan. We should by all means criticize a product for its defects, but we ought to be far more careful about throwing out defamatory remarks with regard to the character of the person/people behind the product.
 
man this stuff moves quick...last time i saw this thread it was half as big.......i usually keep my opinoins to myself...partly because i can't type out my thoughts clearly enough.....stefan made some really good points......i think in the future if i see threads like this i might just move them or delete them.....i think stuff like this leads to more harm than good.....but everyone on the forum is free to express their opinion, good or bad, within reason....as long as people aren't attacking each other.....ryan
 
I suppose. I still think the topic of interest here is important. Personally, I am finding the influx of knives in this $200-$400 price range to be interesting and wonder what will happen to the market. This includes the SLT Kramer, MR's knives, the ITK, and other knives in this price range. Personally I think it will work itself out. The market for expensive kitchen knives is small - most people still go for the $100 19 knife block from WallyWorld. There are a smaller amount of people willing to spend a bit more for a nice set of knives for their home, but the large majority of those aren't looking to spend anything above $100 a knife. Then there are an even smaller amount of people willing to spend a lot of money on a given knife. Many of those aren't really users and just like having "the best" in their kitchen. This group is looking at names - probably Kramer, the SLT or Shun versions if they can't afford the real thing. Finally there is a tiny group that really are into knives. Some of them can afford the customs. Some would love to be able to afford them but can't (me). Most of the former aren't going to go for something like this knife because it's not a true custom. Most of the latter aren't going to be interested in this knife because it's still very expensive and unless the knife performs much better than most of the early reviews on the Addict, it won't really compete with a lot of knives at it's pricepoint. Personally I really am not sure that this knife will have much of an effect on the custom market, but we shall see, I suppose.
 
Add a "flame bait" subforum. move all such posts there and delete after 72hrs or some such time limit.
 
UglyJoe said:
Your big restaurant chains (Applebees, TGIF, etc.) have priced out smaller and higher-quality-but-more-expensive competitors for years. Particularly on these forums, which in large part are composed of contributions from smaller makers, should we not be allowed to discuss the ramifications of a product that could potentially be seen as a serious threat to their business?
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Well, I am a restaurateur and am in no way threatened by the likes of Applebees or TGIF; that comparison is equivalent to apples and baseballs to me.

And this is why I really don't understand people feeling threatened by the Addict or Remedy. If Applebee's is the Addict, than a DT ITK is a high end steak joint, and a full custom should be the equivalent to a top Michelin rated restaurant, right? I'm pretty sure Charlie Trotter could give two craps about Applebee's!!!!
 
Why do those who are bothered by this thread keep posting to it?
 
NO ChoP! said:
Well, I am a restaurateur and am in no way threatened by the likes of Applebees or TGIF; that comparison is equivalent to apples and baseballs to me.

And this is why I really don't understand people feeling threatened by the Addict or Remedy. If Applebee's is the Addict, than a DT ITK is a high end steak joint, and a full custom should be the equivalent to a top Michelin rated restaurant, right? I'm pretty sure Charlie Trotter could give two craps about Applebee's!!!!
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You might not be. I know a lot of people round my home who had to shut down cuz they couldn't compete. You wan't a better comparison? Our only local butcher shut down this past year and started working for Kroger. He couldn't compete with the supermarket's either. And his shop was SOOO much better. Still very bitter about this.
 
Was the name of He Who Shall Not Be Named removed from the tag line becuase of legal concerns or for unintentional violation of the no advertsing rule?:wink:
 
In response to outsourcing knife's
I have acquired some steel from the fine people at TANKA and have it
to Hasbro for the shaping and Schwinn for the handle work.
i made one demo for the pass around thou shipping will be costly
and in keeping the price down to $10 to $12 range.
v3tonkamighty300x225.jpg
[/IMG]
knife.jpg
[/IMG]
 
SpikeC said:
Why do those who are bothered by this thread keep posting to it?
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because there is no rant n rave section. I think something like that would be good for people to vent, then a member who is a psychologist could moderate unresolved childhood issues. I.. I mean people could really use something like that
 
Just to show the how absurd that thing's are getting.
people get so full of them self in forums:disdain:
and the handles will in #2 and #4 black rubber .:biggrin:
 
Wow looks like I missed out on this one...dam

Just want to add:

Every time I read something that mad ricrockyedey guy rights I get a dirty feeling...it's worse then the watching your little sister change her underwear kind of feeling. that guys got to have some heads in a duffel bag or something...maybe he's into blood diamonds?? He's from SA right?? He may just be the cape town killer?

Dave you got to fill me in on this guy, whats his story???

As for the knife in the subject of this thread hers my take.
It's still being made by lamson, right?? So no name or steel can make it into anything more then a lamson knife. There factory has been turning out some of the worst knives for as long as I can remember. I love old knives and can say that I have some nice old dexters...never seen a lamson worth using?? If I were Mark or Hoss I would try and get cutco to make some knives for them. Not kidding cutco IMO makes the best factory knives in the US, better then Dexter or Lamson. And if I'm not mistaken they hold the ginus book for sharpest kitchen knife???
 
I'm not getting why people get so upset to hear that someone doesn't like something or that they don't like the person that made it or brought it to market. Sure I get that it would be all peachy if we never said a negative word but is that realistic?

For myself I have a hard time separating product from person and although wish I could because it would help to avoid troubling times and discourse but I don't see the need to censor other's opinions here who elect to not separate product from person. If a person puts themselves out in the public and asks for the public's money then they deserve the scrutiny of the public be it for their product, personality, or business practices. Hell I own this forum, I do business here, and I would NEVER censor someone's comments on me or my products or services or whatever so long as the comments didn't contain profanity or personal family type attacks. In fact many people have voiced their concerns about my involvement in these types of issues and I have done nothing to make the posts or people disappear.

As for Mark being upset about bad press, well, he's smart enough to realize that there's no such thing as bad press when you're selling, I'm sure that he'll get over it and if not - oh well.
 
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