So how should the forum handle re-sellers or "flippers"?

[charlesquik]

This is an interesting thread. Being kind of new here I see a lot of flipper and can't help to think they are toxic to this community.

 

[chinacats]

This is an interesting thread. Being kind of new here I see a lot of flipper and can't help to think they are toxic to this community.

Well put my friend.

 

[Andreu]

Profit by definition is a financial gain. With this in mind, what if John Doe bought his Shigefusa 240 gyuto kasumi 5 years ago and decided to sell it today. We all know that the knife prices had increased. If he decides to sell it at the current retail price, wouldn’t you think that he would have profited from the knife given that most likely he bought the knife cheaper than the current retail price? Would you then condemn him from profiting? Would you have taken a different approach and be honest with the sale price and sell it at your original cost?

I am staying neutral on this subject. I am merely putting the question out there for the other members to ask themselves this question and honestly answer it.

How would you police this situation if you are against making profit in BST?

 

[chinacats]

Profit by definition is a financial gain. With this in mind, what if John Doe bought his Shigefusa 240 gyuto kasumi 5 years ago and decided to sell it today. We all know that the knife prices had increased. If he decides to sell it at the current retail price, wouldn’t you think that he would have profited from the knife given that most likely he bought the knife cheaper than the current retail price? Would you then condemn him from profiting? Would you have taken a different approach and be honest with the sale price and sell it at your original cost?

I am staying neutral on this subject. I am merely putting the question out there for the other members to ask themselves this question and honestly answer it.

How would you police this situation if you are against making profit in BST?

I believe this discussion is more related to flipping knives than turning profit.

In my opinion a knife you spent 500 bucks for a few years back that now generally goes for 700 it's acceptable to sell it for that though I personally feel it goes against the general spirit. There are often examples of gentlemanly sales including a Shig on the market now...and I often see these offerings...again, if you want to sell that knife for 700 go for it...doesn't make you a bad person just one with a different opinion

Flipping is an entirely different deal...there have been quite a few recent examples and what I believe to be part of the inspiration in starting this discussion. As an aside, the actual source thread is much less offensive imo than the ones not specifically pointed to in this thread.

It was rather amusing a few years back to see Forgies start to go for so much cash on the bay likely driven in large part by the hype created here. EBay is where that behavior makes sense...specifically a free market...to me these markets should remain distinct from each other...not so amusing when it occurs in a forum setting.

I've had my say more than once in this thread but I've really enjoyed hearing others thoughts/opinions.

 

[welshstar]

Another thought

If someone is flipping, dont buy from them. Will soon stop the flipping

No demand, no flipping

 

[Jville]

The difference between flipping and a knive appreciating has been talked about and I think people can tell the difference. I don't think anyone is really complaining about selling a knife at new market value that someone bought previously. The people who are upset are upset about taking knives off the market from people who would actually like to own them, just to resell it those same people here for an inflated price.

 

[charlesquik]

The difference between flipping and a knive appreciating has been talked about and I think people can tell the difference. I don't think anyone is really complaining about selling a knife at new market value that someone bought previously. The people who are upset are upset about taking knives off the market from people who would actually like to own them, just to resell it those same people here for an inflated price.

That it! They only buy these knives faster than other people forcing them to buy at a higher price. This is what we are talking in this thread.
We don't care if you resell your knife that you don't like or you sell it after some time.

Exemple you buy the whole shig shipment preventing anyone to buy and then sell 1 by 1 here at a premium price because demand drives price up. That is flipping

 

[Gregmega]

Exactly. Buying 3 or 5 Masamoto KS and immediately selling them here for 100$ more is flipping. There 10 people in his forum that would have genuinely liked to have ONE of those knives in their collection for USE.

 

[Chicagohawkie]

Still amazes me why anyone cares what someone else does with their own property.

 

[HRC_64]

Still amazes me why anyone cares what someone else does with their own property.

"property"? :rofl:

 

[Wdestate]

Still amazes me why anyone cares what someone else does with their own property.

Could not agree more with you

 

[HRC_64]

Could not agree more with you

Tell me more ... how you "own" the market you sell on?
Do you "own" the NYSE when you sell a stock?

 

[Chef Doom]

I think this is a different situation than 4 types of mayonnaise to choose from

But in a true free-market there will be over a dozen brands to choose from.

Of course every brand will eventually consolidate into 2 major corporations which is also allowed under free market guidlines.

 

[Chef Doom]

I think this is a different situation than 4 types of mayonnaise to choose from

But in a true free-market there will be over a dozen brands to choose from.

Of course every brand will eventually consolidate into 2 major corporations which is also allowed under free market guidlines.

I think this is a different situation than 4 types of mayonnaise to choose from

 

[Chef Doom]

I wholeheartedly agree, Dave.



+1

This post hit home to me; I can't believe no one else commented on it!

I have come to accept that most people are hypocrites one way or another and people will find any means necessary to justify their double standard and even triple standard mentality

 

[rick_english]

Another thought

If someone is flipping, dont buy from them. Will soon stop the flipping

No demand, no flipping

Problem is, there's ALWAYS someone who will buy a rare/popular/collectible knife, no matter what the price. Economists talk about "willing seller and willing buyer," but that works better in theory than in real life. If there's a hurricane coming and there's one 5-gallon bottle of water left in the store and the price is $50, someone will buy it. No threats or coercion involved, just a thirsty buyer and a greedy seller.

 

[Anton]

I have come to accept that most people are hypocrites one way or another and people will find any means necessary to justify their double standard and even triple standard mentality

yup, unfortunately.

This thing called capitalism is live and strong, everywhere not just here; universalization of money-based social relations

 

[Chef Doom]

Problem is, there's ALWAYS someone who will buy a rare/popular/collectible knife, no matter what the price. Economists talk about "willing seller and willing buyer," but that works better in theory than in real life. If there's a hurricane coming and there's one 5-gallon bottle of water left in the store and the price is $50, someone will buy it. No threats or coercion involved, just a thirsty buyer and a greedy seller.

Speak for yourself. I'm taking the water today and apologizing to the store owner after the crisis is over....assuming we are both alive.

Otherwise I will apologize at his funeral, he/she can spit on my grave, or we can have a duel in the afterlife to clear the negative Feng Shui

 

[StonedEdge]

Wake the rest of us up when y'all reach a decision on this "issue"

 

[Matus]

We have heard the words ‘free market’ a lot here. Maybe it is time to remind people, that there are no free markets out there. There are tons of regulations and laws in place, otherwise we would be able to buy shares of production companies making child pornography or heroine , because for both there would certainly be customers.

Going back to our case, I do mot see how admins could stop flipping even if they wanted to. But I think the community should have the possibility - always in a respectful manner - to discuss the issue when it occurs. In particular since it appears that many consider flipping unwanted around here, although if it only has a status of a cavaliers delict.

 

[LucasFur]

Thanks Matus, but were not talking about Illegal items here.

The market must set it's self on these knives.

If you want a knife bad enough, well to bad. Buy early or buy high.

I know for my Kono honyaki, I get offers monthly, sometimes Bi-weekly. And Ya'll are savages for it. (Still not for sale, Dont PM me) -- (I know I'll get a Pm still :nunchucks

 

[bkultra]

Thanks Matus, but were not talking about Illegal items here.

The market must set it's self on these knives.

If you want a knife bad enough, well to bad. Buy early or buy high.

I know for my Kono honyaki, I get offers monthly, sometimes Bi-weekly. And Ya'll are savages for it. (Still not for sale, Dont PM me) -- (I know I'll get a Pm still :nunchucks

PM sent 8)

 

[YG420]

Savages 😂😂😂

 

[labor of love]

Thanks Matus, but were not talking about Illegal items here.

The market must set it's self on these knives.

If you want a knife bad enough, well to bad. Buy early or buy high.

I know for my Kono honyaki, I get offers monthly, sometimes Bi-weekly. And Ya'll are savages for it. (Still not for sale, Dont PM me) -- (I know I'll get a Pm still :nunchucks

But that’s just it. Does the community here overall favor a “free market” approach where there’s profit to be made flipping or should we try and find a way to discourage such behavior?
People will buy and sell rare knives at twice the price of retail I agree. It’s inevitable. But sellers are coming to this forum over eBay because the market is here. Why shouldn’t we push for profitable flipping back to eBay?
I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and I still haven’t heard a decent counter argument to my earlier point: It seems odd that the forum facilitates a atmosphere for people to flip knives and profit (sometimes $200-300 from just a single knife) for free. If people are using this forum to profit and flip knives, shouldn’t the forum at the very least find a way to profit off the profiteers?

 

[Chicagohawkie]

But that’s just it. Does the community here overall favor a “free market” approach where there’s profit to be made flipping or should we try and find a way to discourage such behavior?
People will buy and sell rare knives at twice the price of retail I agree. It’s inevitable. But sellers are coming to this forum over eBay because the market is here. Why shouldn’t we push for profitable flipping back to eBay?
I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and I still haven’t heard a decent counter argument to my earlier point: It seems odd that the forum facilitates a atmosphere for people to flip knives and profit (sometimes $200-300 from just a single knife) for free. If people are using this forum to profit and flip knives, shouldn’t the forum at the very least find a way to profit off the profiteers?

I hear where your coming from in terms of the flippers. However, I’d be careful for what you wish for. There are secondary and tertiary markets with the social media outlets and there’s the other forum that’s pretty hands off. I’d say only a small percentage of sales are these high end knives so not sure you want to abandon the viewership for them simply go somewhere else. The soreals will sort themselves out. If I find a knife I want and I want to pay a little more to get it, then so be it. I don’t want someone to tell me what I can or can’t pay for something.

 

[labor of love]

The flippers hardly contribute to the forum outside of flipping as far as I can tell. Most have very few posts and those posts are usually in threads related to knives that are flippable (shig alert). This forum seems pretty dominant as far as kitchen knife forums go. Marks traffic seems to be mainly centered around noob stuff, konosuke updates, And his upcoming inventory. Social media alternatives will only increase overtime regardless of whatever this forum wants to do I think.
I don’t see any negative repercussions happening by asking flippers to flip elsewhere as they weren’t contributing here in any way.
Honestly, I’m not even convinced of my own argument. But it’s argument that I think is worth hearing and debating. Consider this a mental exercise.

 

[crockerculinary]

I notice nobody has really mentioned how this affects the makers, just the buyers. Maybe some makers can chime in but I would think if a knife you sold for 400 was going for 6 because it’s in demand, you would be pretty happy and take it as a sign that you could raise your prices a bit, and hopefully make a little money out of this hard ass business. I’ve watched this pattern happen with a number of makers, and I’m all for the makers doing better, even if it costs me, the buyer, a little more.
I realize the comments are mostly about gouging on limited production runs and not one of a kind customs like I’m interested in, but I would think the same would apply to those makers/manufacturers. Maybe not.

 

[Chicagohawkie]

The flippers hardly contribute to the forum outside of flipping as far as I can tell. Most have very few posts and those posts are usually in threads related to knives that are flippable (shig alert). This forum seems pretty dominant as far as kitchen knife forums go. Marks traffic seems to be mainly centered around noob stuff, konosuke updates, And his upcoming inventory. Social media alternatives will only increase overtime regardless of whatever this forum wants to do I think.
I don’t see any negative repercussions happening by asking flippers to flip elsewhere as they weren’t contributing here in any way.
Honestly, I’m not even convinced of my own argument. But it’s argument that I think is worth hearing and debating. Consider this a mental exercise.

Well, since it really doesn’t apply to most. I really find it trivial. It’s always the same knives and many times the same people. Way too many variables to even consider controlling. Some of the Harley sites I buy and sell parts on require a wait to be allowed to sell, that lets people get to know each other and their first transactions are moderated. Another thing I find ironic is much of the hype and run up occurs right here. So, you really have to hate the game and not the player.

 

[labor of love]

Mods,
Is there anyway we can put this up for vote on the forum?

Another forum (Badger and Blade, a shaving forum) has these guidelines:

Pricing.

Sellers: You can set any price you want, but if you price high, do not be surprised when other members point that out.

Buyers: You may comment on prices as long as it's done in a gentlemanly, non-accusatory, non-sarcastic fashion.

Sellers: If someone comments on your price, accept it. That is a cost of using the BST. Be confident in your pricing and adapt it if you want or need to. We're not interested in back and forth or arguments.

Buyers: If someone has commented on the price, consider the point made. No piling on.

Individuals who we find to not be abiding by this simple rule will likely find themselves unable to access the BST.


Any thoughts on using it here?

 

[labor of love]

I notice nobody has really mentioned how this affects the makers, just the buyers. Maybe some makers can chime in but I would think if a knife you sold for 400 was going for 6 because it’s in demand, you would be pretty happy and take it as a sign that you could raise your prices a bit, and hopefully make a little money out of this hard ass business. I’ve watched this pattern happen with a number of makers, and I’m all for the makers doing better, even if it costs me, the buyer, a little more.
I realize the comments are mostly about gouging on limited production runs and not one of a kind customs like I’m interested in, but I would think the same would apply to those makers/manufacturers. Maybe not.

I think it would be a lot cooler if Kato/Shig just sold knives for hundreds more. Flippers are potentially making more in profit from these knives than the actual bladesmiths.