Plans to thin an SRS15 santoku

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chiffonodd

chiffonodd

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I've got an Akifusa SRS15 santoku that I usually keep on hand for smaller acidic and/or sticky stuff like shallots and garlic -- can just prep that portion of the meal and leave aside. Bad habit maybe but sue me.

Anyway, I used it to prep a bit more than the usual the other day, including broccoli, some hard root veggies, onion, garlic, etc. Initial cuts are just fine as the edge is quite sharp and stable. No surprise given the SRS15 core. But after that, the knife just does not really cut well. It does not glide through food at all. I had to use two hands to get through some parsnip lengthwise it was wedging so bad.

This is not a problem with the edge I am convinced. I mean the edge is a little banged up in spots and could have a couple very small microchips sharpened out, but I am not very happy with what I have (amateur-ly) diagnosed as the geometry of this blade. There is very little taper and it seems too thick behind the edge. I am interested in thinning it but wanted to get peoples' thoughts on the best way to proceed.

I have a 120 grit shapton, 220 grit king, but then have only a 1K ohishi. Smartest thing would be to use the 220 I imagine so I don't off too much too fast, focusing behind the edge, using sharpie marker to track? I'm not going to be able to regrind the entire knife to out a decent distal taper on it . . . But maybe I can at least improve the thinness behind the edge a bit??

And then wet-dry sandpaper to recreate the brushed/satin finish? No fingers stones but should be able to get a fairly uniform and fine scratch pattern that approximates the original finish.

Anyway here are some pics. You can see the edge bevel is too wide, a good indicator of the knife being too thick.

Edge

20rmq1z.jpg


Not much of a longitudinal distal taper...

sfctnl.jpg


Decent tape from spine to edge but too thick right behind edge!

2gtyfpl.jpg
 
Probably wedges really badly -- I use a carrot to test. If a thick slice results in a crunching sound, it's too fat.

That one needs the shoulders tapered back, at least to my inexperienced eye. I cannot give you much guidance as I've only thinned really crappy stainless knives in at attempt to make real knives out of them, but I think if you concentrate on the upper end of the bevel and grind at about 5 degrees you will greatly improve the cutting ability without taking much metal off.

Someone who actually knows what they are doing will correct me if I'm wrong, but I would personally try for a stripe a couple mm wide starting a mm or so above the edge to start with and see what that does for you. Of that's good you can stop, or if not you can grind a bit closer to the edge at the same angle.

Whatever you do will work better than me trying to grind a primary bevel in soft stainless that had no taper at all from spine to edge bevels....

Peter
 
A typical case of some neglect, where only the very edge got sharpened and the geometry overseen. I would start with automotive sandpaper on linen, P120. Use some pressure. Most stones clog with soft stainless. Use hard rubber or soft wood as backing to avoid facetting. I guess you will get scratches on at least 1/3 of the face.
 
I've got an Akifusa petty which has the same problem, very sharp but no flow cutting through denser stuff...performance way behind my Ashi or Schanz pettys...never sharpened it so no neglectful upkeep of the edge, came like that right OOTB...also thinking about thinning it out a bit
 
Benuser said:
A typical case of some neglect, where only the very edge got sharpened and the geometry overseen. I would start with automotive sandpaper on linen, P120. Use some pressure. Most stones clog with soft stainless. Use hard rubber or soft wood as backing to avoid facetting. I guess you will get scratches on at least 1/3 of the face.
Click to expand...

Do you mean to sand the blade behind the edge with strokes parallel to the edge? Believe it or not this thing was sharpened only once and pretty lightly at that.
 
Benuser said:
A typical case of some neglect, where only the very edge got sharpened and the geometry overseen. I would start with automotive sandpaper on linen, P120. Use some pressure. Most stones clog with soft stainless. Use hard rubber or soft wood as backing to avoid facetting. I guess you will get scratches on at least 1/3 of the face.
Click to expand...

Neglect? Probably not.

All the Akifusa knives I have handled were quite thick behind the edge OOTB and required attention to be decent cutters.
 
chiffonodd said:
Do you mean to sand the blade behind the edge with strokes parallel to the edge? Believe it or not this thing was sharpened only once and pretty lightly at that.
Click to expand...

My remark about neglect was not appropriate, sorry for that. I would thin it with the same motion as with sharpening. With sandpaper only use edge trailing strokes, though, to avoid slight overgrinding when the sandpaper rolls up.
 
My Artisan 210 Gyuto shows similar geometry to the OP photo. The edge bevel was enormous out of the box, but I think it was because the shoulders were blended some with the blade face. It was sharpened to a nice high 6000 ish grit because my 6K stone comes very close to the factory edge finish, but even for its lack of stunning geometry, it still cuts well for my needs, and I actually like it very much. I would start by knocking off the shoulders of the bevel first, unless you just want to thin it out.

Thinning will probably make the knife a better cutter overall, but if you want to start slow, just blend the shoulders of the bevel in a bit, and the knife should cut better than before. I am satisfied with my Artisan as it is (for now) but when I get the skills and time, it will be thinned properly at some point.
 
KitchenCommander said:
My Artisan 210 Gyuto shows similar geometry to the OP photo. The edge bevel was enormous out of the box, but I think it was because the shoulders were blended some with the blade face. It was sharpened to a nice high 6000 ish grit because my 6K stone comes very close to the factory edge finish, but even for its lack of stunning geometry, it still cuts well for my needs, and I actually like it very much. I would start by knocking off the shoulders of the bevel first, unless you just want to thin it out.

Thinning will probably make the knife a better cutter overall, but if you want to start slow, just blend the shoulders of the bevel in a bit, and the knife should cut better than before. I am satisfied with my Artisan as it is (for now) but when I get the skills and time, it will be thinned properly at some point.
Click to expand...

So maybe just an issue with this OEM knife? You know at first I read your post as referring to an "Artifex" which of course sent me over to the other site. Checked out the choil shot of the ultimatum there:

abjces.png


Yikes! Anyway hopefully ok to have reposted that pic. Mods please delete if improper.
 
chiffonodd said:
So maybe just an issue with this OEM knife? You know at first I read your post as referring to an "Artifex" which of course sent me over to the other site. Checked out the choil shot of the ultimatum there:

abjces.png


Yikes! Anyway hopefully ok to have reposted that pic. Mods please delete if improper.
Click to expand...

Is that thing bent to the right or is it just me?
 
Think quite a few persons here have thinned Akifusa's. They do tend to be rather thick. As mentioned you can start by just thinning behind the edge first before putting on your final bevel every time you sharpen.

I did thin my 240 gyuto that left the bottom half of blade contrasting. I evened it up by hand sanding took it to a 320 grit kind of a satin finish. Then put the edge back on. The SRS-15 steel can always be taken to a polished very sharp edge.
 
keithsaltydog said:
Think quite a few persons here have thinned Akifusa's. They do tend to be rather thick. As mentioned you can start by just thinning behind the edge first before putting on your final bevel every time you sharpen.

I did thin my 240 gyuto that left the bottom half of blade contrasting. I evened it up by hand sanding took it to a 320 grit kind of a satin finish. Then put the edge back on. The SRS-15 steel can always be taken to a polished very sharp edge.
Click to expand...

Did you thin on stones or with sandpaper as suggested above? If on stones did you have any trouble with the soft stainless cladding gumming things up?
 
chiffonodd said:
Did you thin on stones or with sandpaper as suggested above? If on stones did you have any trouble with the soft stainless cladding gumming things up?
Click to expand...

Soft stainless cladding just feels gummy - it doesn't actually gum things up, though the sheer amount of steel you are removing during any thinning operation may load the stone and require lapping. That's one reason I like to use Atoma plates for thinning.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
Soft stainless cladding just feels gummy - it doesn't actually gum things up, though the sheer amount of steel you are removing during any thinning operation may load the stone and require lapping. That's one reason I like to use Atoma plates for thinning.
Click to expand...

I have an atoma 140 but I'm scared to start on that :shocked3: Might even start with a 1K stone with marker on the blade just to get a visual of where steel's being removed in order to find the correct angle, then drop down to a 220. Slow and steady for this first attempt!
 
chiffonodd said:
I have an atoma 140 but I'm scared to start on that :shocked3: Might even start with a 1K stone with marker on the blade just to get a visual of where steel's being removed in order to find the correct angle, then drop down to a 220. Slow and steady for this first attempt!
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with being cautious, but grinding the side of the blade is a lot more forgiving than grinding the edge, where an Atoma 140 can do some damage in unskilled hands. I'm willing to bet that you'll be moving to the Atoma after trying to thin with a 220.

Keep in mind that to be effective, you have to thin at least the lower one-third of the blade.
 
Benuser said:
My remark about neglect was not appropriate, sorry for that. I would thin it with the same motion as with sharpening. With sandpaper only use edge trailing strokes, though, to avoid slight overgrinding when the sandpaper rolls up.
Click to expand...

No apologies needed I did not take it as meanspirited criticism, just feedback on a possible issue. Nothing should be ruled out with me lol
 
chiffonodd said:
Did you thin on stones or with sandpaper as suggested above? If on stones did you have any trouble with the soft stainless cladding gumming things up?
Click to expand...

I used to do thinning with the 140 Atoma, found that thinning on coarse stones will dish the stone quick. When got into making handles bought a 1X42 sander. At first was afraid to thin on the sander, started with some cheap old American carbons like Dexters. Keep a bucket of water to dip the blade. On the sander never let the edge come in contact with spinning belt just the metal behind the edge. Do it without gloves finer touch & can feel any heat. After thinning can touch it up on the stones. Now use the belt all the time restoring knives, hatchets, Axes and Machete's.

Don't know how the pro's do it, have gained confidence with practice.
 
Well I started out on the 220 and quickly grew bored, just like ptiger predicted. Droped down to the atoma 140 and felt it was loading pretty fast, knife just started gliding. So I went to the shapton 120 and then I started seeing some serious cutting action. Stone was really grabbing onto the steel. This is after about an hour of work all told...

2hg7ayq.jpg


Still a ways to go but looking better than the first pic for sure.
 
Good luck with thinning...just don't make it too flat.
 
Your fingers may hurt, but I bet the knife cuts MUCH better now!

Peter
 
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