15n20 x 1084 Damascus -- Reactivity? Performance?

[gwhphoto]

I am looking at a knife with damascus made of these two steels combined. This is not a cladding but the entire blade is made of this damascus. It has been coffee etched for a textured/rougher finish on the damascus so that the dark metal is almost black, and has been heat treated to 62 HRC.

I am not familiar with this carbon steel combo -- what are the thoughts here about how this would perform in terms of edge retention, sharpening, and reactivity/patina. (I prefer less reactivity and slow patina formation). Would the rougher texture on the damascus help with food release? How would a blade combining the different metals along the edge sharpen? Toothy? smooth? would it sharpen and cut line a single steel core?

I would appreciate any info from the experts here!

And, if this is not the best forum to post this, let me know where I should place it.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

That's probably the most common Damascus made. It's pretty good, I would put it slightly higher than 1084 on its own. The 1084 will be reactive but with it already having been etched, it's going to be safe from rust and anything else. The 15n20 has a really high nickel content so it will stay shiny most of the time. I would have no issues buying that from any reputable maker and 62 HRC seems to be a pretty good number from the ones I've tried. When looking at Damascus with this combo I would only be worried about the maker, not the steels

 

[timebard]

Lots of good info I won't attempt to summarize here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2023/07...-super-steels-testing-different-combinations/

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Lots of good info I won't attempt to summarize here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2023/07...-super-steels-testing-different-combinations/

I was going to post this if nobody else did. He doesn't go into finish at all but too rough/too etched is very noticeable as friction during the slice for the OP's other question. Marginal improvement to food release isn't worth this, imo.

 

[Delat]

I don’t have that exact combo, but I have one knife with 1084 cladding and another with 26c3/15n20 coreless damascus, and another with 15n20/80crv2/copper damascus. With a good coffee etch they should get very dark and not develop much more of a patina in use, if any.

IME texture from an etch is usually undesirable as it adds drag. Food release comes from geometry and micro-pitting from an etch won’t help. Lightly removing the micro-pitting to restore the original texture (presumably a belt finish in the 300-800 grit range) gets you back to a nice finish in terms of performance.

While doing a 24 hour coffee etch I recommend pulling the knife twice, giving it a wash with soap, a good rub with a clean paper towel, and a super light brush with 1-4k sandpaper. After the etch you should be fine, but if you notice drag then another light brush with very high grit sandpaper (I use micromesh) should clean it up.

 

[DevinT]

In the early’90s I was getting a lot of phone calls from knife makers who were having problems with forge welding. There was no consensus on what to use for pattern welded material.

Makers were using O1, W2, 1095, 5160, L6, a203e, nickel, 15n20, O2, W1, 1084, and every recycled material they could find.

There was a lot of inconsistency.

At that time I recommended that Jeff Carlisle buy and stock a bunch of 1084 and 15n20 for knife makers. It was a lot easier to forge weld and it was easy to etch/finish and heat treat.

It caught on very quickly and today it is the standard mix that most smiths use.

It tested high in toughness and moderate in edge holding. Nothing wrong with it when heat treated properly.

Me and Larrin did a big study last year on pattern welded steel which has been linked. For the nerds out there, it is worth a look.

Hoss

 

[gwhphoto]

WOW! this is why I joined KKF! Such detailed responses, and to hear from such distinguished people as Hoss is just incredible.
I never thought myself a knife nerd, but that article was fascinating and I read all of it, including about the stainless Damascus steels.
Thanks everyone and if there are any more thoughts let me know, but I think I will place my order.
I will contact the maker and get his thoughts on a smoother polish on the blade.

 

[bill_zeng]

I have a similar story, though it's a bit funny and also quite sad.
About 12 years ago, when I was pursuing my master's degree at university, some of my classmates embarked on an ambitious project just to get their diplomas. At that time, composite materials (carbon fiber, Kevlar, fiberglass) were very popular. They collaborated with some factories that specialized in processing prefabricated steel to create metal composite materials. Although they had been warned about the potential outcomes before starting the project, they proceeded with it for the sake of graduation.

The result was that, while this composite steel exhibited different properties in different directions, it turned out to be a failure. There were numerous forging issues, and even when the forging was perfect, it was still inferior to monolithic steel. Eventually, they abandoned that project and started a new research topic. Within a limited time, they completed the new research and graduated successfully.

Of course, as composite steel for knives, there would be a certain degree of differential wear, leading to a serrated-like effect. However, such superficial research findings were not enough to earn them their diplomas.


For knives, or any commercial products, Damascus steel (composite steel) holds high commercial value. It can fulfill the emotional needs of customers.