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mikemac said:
Two possible solutions though - in your price range look for a Chinese Clever, something like a CCK 1303 or a Dexter Russell Connoisseur, but you will want to try to avoid the $15 versions of cleavers you'll come across. Second choice is to take your budget up to $100 +/- and look at something like a Carbonext 210 (8") gyuto. No matter what, welcome...
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Why avoid the cheap Chinese cleavers? I got one from Wok Shop for $17 shipped and it's been fun. Sure the grind is wavy but that's true with a lot of non-machine knives. It was reasonably thin, easy to sharpen, and took a nice edge. I think one could do a lot worse.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...r-I-can-order?highlight=cheap+chinese+cleaver
 
I would truly love to know, they claim to be made out of old railroad carbon steel, if so that would be 58-62 HRC depending on the heat treatment I suspect...

All I know is they form a big burr ridiculously easy
 
Mr.Wizard said:
Why avoid the cheap Chinese cleavers? I got one from Wok Shop for $17 shipped .....
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IMHO, there's too much inconsistency in the sub $20 (even sub $50) pricepoint, The CCK or DR hit the pricepoint, get the job done and could be a lifetime purchase, Santa Cruz is not San Francisco, and spending $40 in gas, and several hours round trip to potentially get something that may or may not be a good fit sounds like a bad idea.
BTW - to the original poster - a CCK Duck Slicer may be an interesting alternative - never used one but might be a good alternative
 
Get yourself a Tojiro DP which you can get a little over 50 bucks on sale. Those are decent knives and you should definitely stretch your budget and buy smth decent. Zakuri could be an option too, but those are also slightly above your budget.
 
daddy yo yo said:
Get yourself a Tojiro DP which you can get a little over 50 bucks on sale. Those are decent knives and you should definitely stretch your budget and buy smth decent. Zakuri could be an option too, but those are also slightly above your budget.
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================================

Hi
I have a Tojiro 150 Petty and a 170 Santoku.


Basic knives hold a fine edge (almost wife proof.) and cheap.
Try Hocho Knives for them. That's where I get mine from. Normally 5/6 day del. But probably more this time of yr.
 
mikemac said:
IMHO, there's too much inconsistency in the sub $20 (even sub $50) pricepoint, The CCK or DR hit the pricepoint, get the job done and could be a lifetime purchase, Santa Cruz is not San Francisco, and spending $40 in gas, and several hours round trip to potentially get something that may or may not be a good fit sounds like a bad idea.
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I guess you missed this: I paid $17 shipped -- it was delivered to my door two days after I ordered it. If you have more money than time then order something else, however the OP is looking for a budget option and this is a good one.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
I guess you missed this: I paid $17 shipped -- it was delivered to my door two days after I ordered it. If you have more money than time then order something else, however the OP is looking for a budget option and this is a good one.
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Yes.
But there's budget. Then there's cheap. there's a difference.

Cheap are those Chinese etc items. both in price and quality.
They would NOT have decent steel in them

The likes of Tojiro and that Brazilian mfg (Mundial) would be the lowest i'd go for a knife I wanted to give and hold a good edge.
and still be good in 5/10 yrs time.
If you're happy with crap. SO be it.
but after handling and using mid range steels you wouldn't go back.

I've had mainly Wusthof with a few Mundial for over 50 yrs and been 100% happy. the individual knives last that long.
46+ the last 8in Chef.
And it had a hairline crack in spine from new. (I never worried about it.)
Took it to a knife shop to compare handling to another, and she said
Hey. Send that back They (Wusthof) will replace it.
YEA.....
Well. I did. AND They did. without a word. Just a new Knife after 40 odd yrs of use. That's warranty...
and one of the reasons you go that way.

I have a Mundial 6in chef here.
Blade well worn down (softer steel) but still holds an edge and the wife loves the feel of it.
Along with my Tojiro 150 Petty.

These starter Japanese ones (Tojuro) are a step UP the ladder Steel wise (Core 10 laminates). and lower in price than Wusthof and Mundial.
They just have to be learnt all over again. Especially the sharpening.
 
macka17, I never claimed this cheap cleaver was a great knife, just a good bargain. It is not "crap" and you shouldn't presume that I have no experience with decent steel. The OP said "I will primarily be using it to learn sharpening techniques" and once again this is perfect for that. He wrote: "Edge retention would be nice, but I would mainly like something easy to sharpen and touch up as this is what I hope to practice before getting a nicer blade." The cleaver is very easy to sharpen and can take a keen edge at a reasonably low angle. It does not roll on the first use like certain soft stainless blades would so it is entirely usable to practice and test a variety of edge geometries. I stand by what I wrote: one could do a lot worse. I do not infer the intention to keep this knife for "5/10 yrs time" and I repeat that it's nice not to expect a knife to last like that when you are using it for practice.
 
For a chef knife under 50 a victorinox classic with the fibrox handle will probably do most home cooks pretty well, or the rosewood handled version can be had for right at 50
 
macka17 said:
Yes.
But there's budget. Then there's cheap. there's a difference.

Cheap are those Chinese etc items. both in price and quality.
They would NOT have decent steel in them

The likes of Tojiro and that Brazilian mfg (Mundial) would be the lowest i'd go for a knife I wanted to give and hold a good edge.
and still be good in 5/10 yrs time.
If you're happy with crap. SO be it.
but after handling and using mid range steels you wouldn't go back.

I've had mainly Wusthof with a few Mundial for over 50 yrs and been 100% happy. the individual knives last that long.
46+ the last 8in Chef.
And it had a hairline crack in spine from new. (I never worried about it.)
Took it to a knife shop to compare handling to another, and she said
Hey. Send that back They (Wusthof) will replace it.
YEA.....
Well. I did. AND They did. without a word. Just a new Knife after 40 odd yrs of use. That's warranty...
and one of the reasons you go that way.

I have a Mundial 6in chef here.
Blade well worn down (softer steel) but still holds an edge and the wife loves the feel of it.
Along with my Tojiro 150 Petty.

These starter Japanese ones (Tojuro) are a step UP the ladder Steel wise (Core 10 laminates). and lower in price than Wusthof and Mundial.
They just have to be learnt all over again. Especially the sharpening.
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Not sure if you've ever used a cheap carbon steel cleaver or not, but the steel is likely similar to what cck uses--also cheap steel but not so cheap knife. Both good to learn sharpening on if they fit your budget. Learning to hold an angle is a bit easier imo on a clever than a gyuto and you can sharpen every day for a year and still have a good nakiri left to enjoy. As to the comparison to a whustie or Henckels, is rather sharpen the cheap cleaver any day. That said, the cleaver could come with a wonky edge that may make it difficult for a beginner.

After all this sidetracking I'm curious where the OP stands--let's see ?¿? I thought he wanted a stainless knife initially? As to the victorinox/forschner they're great knives for the money, but I personally don't care for the profile so much :laugh: Their boners and bread knives are truly great bang for the buck.
 
Too late to edit--sorry OP, I got confused as to stainless--you said you do not prefer stainless.

Since you've not posted in a bit, what are you leaning toward?
 
The OP responded to Do you require stainless? with a No. Primary purpose was to learn to sharpen. Price point less than 50.

I still like used carbon for this set of requirements. Easy to sharpen, would allow user to readily see what stone was doing, user would have a real knife after some work. An inexpensive cleaver would also work well. I've had a wok shop cleaver for more than 20 years, it ain't pretty and I don't use it every day or even every week. Mine was about 10 bucks but that was back when 10 bucks was real money.

The $50 stainless Vnox, Torijo etc are made to be wear resistant, a pretty strong correlation with hard to sharpen. Wusties would be particularly ill suited for these requirements. Mundal might be the worst knife ever, by any measure, and especially for this application.
 
Having run through a handful of tojiro Shirogami santoku knives that have been really nice for the price point. I would recomend it as a jumping off point. Rather flat bevels and super easy to work with and achieve a great edge for a new user knife. As a means to learn how to sharpen and get the feeling of a burr and a clean new edge it's a solid intro in my book.
 
I am overwhelmed by all of the great advice. Thank you so much, I will take this forward with me when my budget permits and likely buy something in the $200 range once I am comfortable with my sharpening skills (and that I won't mess up the aesthetics on a good blade). As it turns out I have no shortage of blades to practice on. I work at a restaurant here in santa cruz and many of my coworkers (of whom many are chefs) are taking me up on my offer to sharpen their blades.

And they have all been warned as to the fact that I am a novice trying to learn. It should prove interesting, hopefully there aren't too many that pass through my hands with poor steel quality. Though I'm sure it will all be informative.

Cheers - Julian
 
chinacats said:
Too late to edit--sorry OP, I got confused as to stainless--you said you do not prefer stainless.

Since you've not posted in a bit, what are you leaning toward?
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As I love to cook at home but will not be doing so all to often I will probably opt for a non stainless alloy. Plus I do not mind the extra maintenance and sharpening to properly care for a high carbon blade. The possibility of a sharper edge it worth more to me as is ease of sharpening.
 
Based on the uses I will have for my knives it looks to me like Will be purchasing at least three knives in the near future. I prefer the look of damascus steel so I will keep my eye out for such, if possible I will purchase something from an craftsman rather than a big name brand. It will likely not be stainless.

As of right now I am keeping my eye out for a yanagi, santoku, and a pairing knife. I will do more research on them through the forum, as well as check the trade/buy/sell. I will likely spread the purchases out trying to stay around 150-$200+/- per knife
 
Castalia said:
Looks like we convinced you to up that budget. Way to go KKF!:moonwalk:
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Yep quite. I have a bit of experience with blades coming from the straight razor angle. While I have managed to be thrifty with a few of the deals I've gotten none have been so consistent as the ones that I knew were quality and in good shape from the start. So I guess it's patience over impulse before diving into the kitchen knife world :surrendar:
 
Hi.

O/T a little.

Regarding sharpening.

Nowadays there's no need to "try" and get it right.

There are several little items. Tojiro do one. That you hold against the blade and it holds your 20/17/15deg angles for you.
Also. for a few more bucks there are machines? that you set up with stones /diamond plates that are fairly cheap. that also hold your angles for you.
That's the way to go nowadays.

I'm 70 odd. been hand sharpening all sorts of knives for 55ish yrs.
Strop on an old army 3 in leather strap with brass buckle.

This $114 with a coupla diamond plates is a no brainer. Great for my ceramics.
Why would anybody do anything but steeling freehand nowadays?
when around $17/18 will get you such an item. Correct angle without hassles EVERY time
and fits in your wallet of shirt pocket.
 
SailorJ said:
Based on the uses I will have for my knives it looks to me like Will be purchasing at least three knives in the near future. I prefer the look of damascus steel so I will keep my eye out for such, if possible I will purchase something from an craftsman rather than a big name brand. It will likely not be stainless.

As of right now I am keeping my eye out for a yanagi, santoku, and a pairing knife. I will do more research on them through the forum, as well as check the trade/buy/sell. I will likely spread the purchases out trying to stay around 150-$200+/- per knife
Click to expand...

You'll probably stumble upon these during your searches, but both Gesshin Uraku & Gonbei hammered damascus from JKI fit your criteria very well. Both have japanese octagonal handles, Uraku comes in either white #2 or stainless (gonbei damascus is only stainless). Gonbei hammered damascus has a damascus finish (obviously!), Uraku also have some petty and gyuto options in korouchi, if you're into that. Both are well within the budget of $150-200 per knife.
 
macka17 said:
Hi.

O/T a little.

Regarding sharpening.

Nowadays there's no need to "try" and get it right.

There are several little items. Tojiro do one. That you hold against the blade and it holds your 20/17/15deg angles for you.
Also. for a few more bucks there are machines? that you set up with stones /diamond plates that are fairly cheap. that also hold your angles for you.
That's the way to go nowadays.

I'm 70 odd. been hand sharpening all sorts of knives for 55ish yrs.
Strop on an old army 3 in leather strap with brass buckle.

This $114 with a coupla diamond plates is a no brainer. Great for my ceramics.
Why would anybody do anything but steeling freehand nowadays?
when around $17/18 will get you such an item. Correct angle without hassles EVERY time
and fits in your wallet of shirt pocket.
Click to expand...


Very true, I am going to invest in a guide, but I suppose it's because I like the challenge. If I just wanted a sharp knife I have no doubt I could purchase a good quality blade and bring it to the gent that sharpens knives at the local farmers market, or have one of the dozens of chefs at my work sharpen them.
 
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