Carbonext gyuto

[labor of love]

Theres a hiromoto in bst for $125. Not a bad price for a 270mm.

 

[tk59]

...Do you really see the benefits of a 70.30 or 60/40 asymmetric edge??

Yes.

As for the OOTB edge on CN, it is serviceable but not great. Buying a knife based on the OOTB edge isn't the wisest thing, IMO. If you really like to cut with a NICE edge, you will have to do frequent touching up or sharpening with either of these. The HiroAS will sharpen up slightly easier but the difference is negligible. Also, Wusties (even the nicer ones) aren't great unless you really like the profile. HRC 59-61 is a typical range for typical hard use knives, even the high end stuff, esp stainless. It's pretty much a given that your knife is going to be tempered to a hardness range.

 

[vicv]

I also don't care about the 00tb edge. That I can do. It's the rest. Oh well. I've got to learn sometime!

 

[stevenStefano]

I picked a Carbonext up about a week ago and last night I sharpened and thinned it a bit and I gotta say I'm very impressed. I didn't thin it all that much and it performs pretty good. I have a Western Kono HD and they are almost identical. I'd say the Carbonext steel takes more of a "patina" but in every other aspect they are almost the same, although of course the Carbonext cost about $170 less than the HD does now. The fit and finish was actually better on my Carbonext too.

 

[labor of love]

I picked a Carbonext up about a week ago and last night I sharpened and thinned it a bit and I gotta say I'm very impressed. I didn't thin it all that much and it performs pretty good. I have a Western Kono HD and they are almost identical. I'd say the Carbonext steel takes more of a "patina" but in every other aspect they are almost the same, although of course the Carbonext cost about $170 less than the HD does now. The fit and finish was actually better on my Carbonext too.

thats quite a statment. how do the handles compare?

 

[stevenStefano]

I think the Carbonext handle is a little slimmer compared to the HD from what I can remember as I got my HD rehandled. A few people in the past said that the Carbonext and HD were the same knife but they definitely aren't

 

[ThEoRy]

I think the Carbonext handle is a little slimmer compared to the HD from what I can remember as I got my HD rehandled. A few people in the past said that the Carbonext and HD were the same knife but they definitely aren't

I've never heard that statement before. I've always believed the carbonext to be a Kikiuchi Performance/tkc clone.

 

[labor of love]

i remember hearing the carbonext and the tkc were the same but with different handles.

 

[Cadillac J]

The fit and finish was actually better on my Carbonext too.

My Carbonext handle is just like yours -- fitted perfectly and very comfortable. I also had a 270 CN suji when they first came out, and it was finished exactly the same. I've got nothing but good things to say about the CN line based on the two I've owned.

 

[mark76]

I picked a Carbonext up about a week ago and last night I sharpened and thinned it a bit and I gotta say I'm very impressed. I didn't thin it all that much and it performs pretty good. I have a Western Kono HD and they are almost identical.

Really? Is the Carbonext also as thin as the Kono HD? And do they have a similar profile, i.e. thin behind the edge?

 

[stevenStefano]

Really? Is the Carbonext also as thin as the Kono HD? And do they have a similar profile, i.e. thin behind the edge?

Well I believe the Western Konos are a bit thicker than the wa's. I don't have my Carbonext to hand so perhaps Caddilac J could say more about the Carbonext but I think they are fairly close in thinness. I thinned my Kono quite a few times though. I must also mention that all this is from the perspective of a lefty. I don't think too many people have the Western Konos to be perfectly honest

 

[rdpx]

Rather than start a new thread, this one seems to be in the ball park of my question.

I have a CarboNext 210 gyuto turning up tomorrow (if I am in for the postman, which is not certain).

I am wondering about this OOTB edge and the need to sharpen the blade. I am a rank beginner when it comes to all this, but based on forum advice the CN seemed the way to go, so I am hoping you can take me just this little bit further.

When I get my knife, what will I need to do to it sharpening wise? At this stage I don't want to worry about thinning anything, and what I am hoping is that the OOTB edge will merely require some sharpening up on my #1000 then #6000 stones, and that I will just have to follow the bevels that are already there on the knife. Is it going to be that straightforward, or am I missing something? I would ideally like to get it right straight off the bat.

Thanks.

 

[stevenStefano]

Yeah I think you've got the idea. It's a pretty thin knife so I'd say it shouldn't take that long

 

[ThEoRy]

Set a crispy bevel, refine it to about 5k, strop on a medium with a substrate.

 

[rdpx]

Yeah I think you've got the idea. It's a pretty thin knife so I'd say it shouldn't take that long

Thanks Steve. By "not long" are we talking 5 minutes, or half an hour? I am going to be very light of touch with this however long it takes.

One other thing - should the angle of the bevel be the same on both sides, or should the left side [ie the food side, if that makes sense] have a slightly steeper angle?

 

[rdpx]

Set a crispy bevel, refine it to about 5k, strop on a medium with a substrate.

Now you see all I really understood there was the 5K bit. Also I have no strop; all I have is 1k & 6k stones (and 240 but that won't be going anywhere near it)

What in the world is a "crispy bevel"?

:scratchhead:

 

[chinacats]

Now you see all I really understood there was the 5K bit. Also I have no strop; all I have is 1k & 6k stones (and 240 but that won't be going anywhere near it)

What in the world is a "crispy bevel"?

:scratchhead:

I think he just means a nice clean bevel, in other words try not to 'wobble' when you set the angle. The angle set on the first stone will be the one you will need to follow. You can either strop on your stone or some newsprint on a flat surface. I'm sure you will do fine, worst case is you start over until you get it sharp.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Maybe he means a toothy edge fr. Med. stone.After reading about these knives so long I bought the 240 Carbonext to show at my class.OOTB it was resistant going thru paper,not sharp.It was an easy fix on the stones.Thinned wt. Bester 1K,polished backbevel & cut in final bevel wt my new Gesshin 4K.Cowhide Strop.Took a sharp edge as good as some of my Carbons.Easy recomm. for Students along wt. Gesshin Uraku,Fujiwara,Suisin Inox,Pro-M.

 

[rdpx]

I think he just means a nice clean bevel, in other words try not to 'wobble' when you set the angle. The angle set on the first stone will be the one you will need to follow. You can either strop on your stone or some newsprint on a flat surface. I'm sure you will do fine, worst case is you start over until you get it sharp.

"angle on first stone" i.e. the bevel it arrives with?

I should start off with a #1000 grit though, am I right in believing that?

Can someone quickly explain stropping - and what doing it with newspaper would achieve?

Fingers crossed for doing it perfectly straight off.... I had better take some photos of it before I start so I can remember what it looked like before I hacked it down to a 4" petty knife.

Thanks CC & keith.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I do not know your shipping to GB,Dave Martell's DVD on sharpening covers a good basis for freehand sharpening & covers correct strop use too.Japanese knife Imports has you-tube on line sharpening info.

Rarely keep the bevel knife arrives with,thinning behind the edge as Martell calls it is at a more shallow angle than original.Then final bevel also called micro bevel is at higher angle,gives some strength to the edge.

 

[ThEoRy]

When I say crispy basically I mean a flat, sharp, clean and true edge with no burr or wire edge. Then from there you can take it up a notch. If you don't have a strop try finding some balsa wood from an art supply store and loading it with some 1 micron poly crystalline diamond spray. To strop just place the edge on the heel at the far end of the strop with the spine towards you. Have the spine just a little bit higher than the sharpening angle you used and pull towards you swiping from heel to toe. Be careful not to roll the edge at the end of the stroke or slip off the sides. Just lift the knife directly up in the air and go back to the starting position and repeat. Do this on both sides until the whole edge can easily shave and push cut paper.

 

[dannynyc]

Let me just say this -- out of all the knives I've owned or used over the years, my 240 CN would be one of the last to go.

Might sound weird to many, but this knife just plain does the job...it fits the bill for what I value most: performance. Of course that is not right out of the box, but with some sharpening know-how and tweaking, it can be a beast...don't let the 59 or whatever hrc fool you. Funny that I originally wasn't a fan of the profile, and wished it had a wa-handle, and hoped Koki would change the name, and blah blah blah...but it has became one of my favorites for its simplicity. This is just one man's opinion.

Cadillac: can I ask what you did to thin this? It looks pretty dramatic in the photo.

 

[tk59]

He probably started on a Beston 500 or similar, then went to 1k until the 500 scratches were gone, then 3-5k then most of the popular 8k+ stones will give you a nice near-mirror finish like that. Naniwa superstones are particularly nice for this, IMO. The main thing is to get most of the coarser scratches out before working the blade on a finer stone. Otherwise, it will take forever.

 

[Cadillac J]

Cadillac: can I ask what you did to thin this? It looks pretty dramatic in the photo.

I didn't go full swing on this at one time...I originally just thinned it out about one centimeter behind the edge like below.

But I realized it would be able to handle even more, so I spent some time thinning much higher on the blade while trying to enhance the convexity of the face and blend it right into the edge. The heavy lifting was done with a combo of Shapton Pro 220 and Chosera 600, then just normal progression of Bester 1200--Naniwa SS 5K (and then went to 10K SS to reduce any scratches as much as possible)

 

[slowtyper]

That looks insane.

I ordered a CN with the "upgraded sharpening" for a fee, because they were all sold out of the "normal" ones at the time. The edge was decent OOTB. Basically they just cut an edge for you.

 

[panda]

just sharpened one a few days ago. the edge it had didnt last very long, so thinned behind the edge, then went higher angle with an even higher left side PLUS a microbevel. this is for a line cook who abuses the hell out of knives so retention is first priority. got pretty sharp easy, however, i dont know if it was an isolated incident, but i swear this thing gave off unusually high amount of swarf. my hands were completely covered in black!!

 

[bkdc]

+1^. I love my 240 for the same reason above, it's a simple knife. It takes a beating, and keeps on going.

lus1:

My gf's mother now owns mine, and I miss it dearly. What a great knife at that pricepoint. Frikkin awesome performer that takes a licking and keeps on performing. It remains my #1 recommendation for a starter Japanese knife.

 

[Gravy Power]

to those who have owned both, how does the Carbonext stack up to a Fujiwara?

 

[berko]

fujiwara fkm?

 

[stevenStefano]

I've been using my Carbonext quite a lot recently and I am very happy with it. My main 2 knives at present are it and my Kono HD. I think the Konosuke edge retention is a little better, but other than that I think they are pretty close in terms of performance, especially when you consider there is roughly a $200 difference in price between them. The Carbonext also takes much more of a patina than the HD, especially round where I grip the blade there is a pretty funky pattern going on. One slight regret is that I didn't get a lefty version but all in all I'm more than happy with mine