Bought CCK 1303 or maybe CCK 1302

[miggus]

Hi guys,

I adore my full-size Moritaka Chukabocho, and am thinking about a custom that is a tad smaller. Before I commit, I want to find the right size. Which means trying out somewhat smaller cleavers. I have a Denka Large Nakiri which I adore, but it is too small.

So anything that is larger than the Denka (195x60) and smaller than the Moritaka (220x110) would be welcome. No further requirements, since it's about trying out sizes. Oh and I'm in Germany. Feel free to offer anything thats 400€ or less.

Cheaper offers or those I can resell without much loss preferred, so used knives or loaners will be particularly interesting.

Will be used for veggies only, so please only offer slicers, no bone-hacking thick choppers.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: I narrowed it down to the CCK 1302 / 1303 because they seem the most interesting option given that I found some Shibazi's to try.

 

[blokey]

I’d honestly recommend you try a cheaper one like CCK or whatever’s in the Asian supermarket

 

[miggus]

Thanks, that's probably the route I'll be going for. Plan was not to spend too much, and a friendly KKF person offered me to help me get one of those.

But if something really nice would show up, I might be tempted, so I put the high price limit in the post.

One more thing: I'd prefer a carbon blade with easy sharpening.

This CCK 210 #3 Thin Carbon looks perfect. Anyone has something like that within Europe? I think it's a CCK 1303?

Saw this thread, but the suggestions don't exist anymore: Chinese Cleavers in the EU...

 

[Konig9402]

You should consider a Sugimoto SF-4030 (190x95) if this ends up being your preferred size. I started with this size as well but found larger 220x110 cleavers quicker to work with.

 

[miggus]

You should consider a Sugimoto SF-4030 (190x95) if this ends up being your preferred size. I started with this size as well but found larger 220x110 cleavers quicker to work with.

Thanks, if the size turns out to be fine, this certainly will be considered. Although in this link, the cutting edge looks very round, way too round for me. I'd prefer it mostly flat, with either a slight curve or a rounded tip for "emergency rocking".

 

[miggus]

I looked into it again and think that the CCK KF1303 or 1302 should be quite perfect for me: Thin blade, carbon steel, straight profile and desired measurements.

Sadly, I only found them from knifewear (116€ + shipping) and Bernard cutlery(92€ + shipping). Approx. 30% import taxes on top of that. Ordering them there would end me up with a price of 150-200€ effectively.

If that's the cheapest, I might as well save another 100ish € and get something fancy to begin with. So still looking.

This one might not be that much cheaper and somehow I can't access the article from German ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175534919350​

 

[blokey]

I looked into it again and think that the CCK KF1303 should be quite perfect for me: Thin blade, carbon steel, straight profile and desired measurements.

Sadly, I only found them from knifewear (116€ + shipping) and Bernard cutlery(92€ + shipping). Approx. 30% import taxes on top of that. Ordering them there would end me up with a price of 150-200€ effectively.

If that's the cheapest, I might as well save another 100ish € and get something fancy to begin with. So still looking.

This one might not be that much cheaper and somehow I can't access the article from German ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175534919350​

I think another German member posted here that some vendors there carry Taiwanese knives, you should check that out maybe.

 

[blokey]

Found it, this here
https://www.ugou.de/produkt/chishun-kuchenmesser-1st/?lang=de

 

[miggus]

Thanks @blokey. That looks interesting, although it's a fullsize cleaver, and I have the Moritaka AS with those specs. Might still be fun to try it out since it is significantly lighter (360g vs 500g according to this thread)

 

[blokey]

It is worth to try, there’s also Shibazi F208 or the ShiBaZi carbon cleaver on AliExpress, not as well grind but worth it for the money

 

[miggus]

Hmm, I'd rather spend a bit more and have a decent to good grind to begin with - too much bother otherwise. But I'm totally fine with a super simple carbon steel that will sharpen up easily, take a good edge and hold it for a reasonable amount of time.

It's a shame eBay won't let me order from Hong Kong - the offer is right there, but ebay.de will block it. But they just suggested this beauty (1kg!)

Seems like they're teasing me

I used to live with someone from Hongkong actually - he could have brought me one of them CCKs for a few bucks. But he doesn't go there anymore since the crackdown anyways...

 

[blokey]

ShiBaZis are not badly ground, CCKs are just on another level, here’s a galley borrowed from Reddit, the geometry could use some thinning. (It is a bit thicker than the choil suggest)
https://imgur.io/a/WBsIWpZ

 

[picturepoet]

Found it, this here
https://www.ugou.de/produkt/chishun-kuchenmesser-1st/?lang=de

very good recommendation!
I also own one...steel is probably Shirogami#2...very low reactive and holds the edge pretty well
look at the choil!

ChiShun Chinesisches Kochmesser AKA Chinese Cleaver | Kochmalscharf

CCK is also available here in Europe

https://hkknives.se/collections/knivar

 

[miggus]

very good recommendation!
I also own one...steel is probably Shirogami#2...very low reactive and holds the edge pretty well

That surprised me actually - why do you think this cheapo Chinese knife would be made out of Shirogami?

I don't think it is very likely, since there is a lot of simple carbon steels that can be had for a fracture the price. But I agree that the basic steel type is probably similar, just I'd assume less carbon and less purity, which is totally fine, since this type of knife won't be hardened to 60+ HRC to begin with.

CCK is also available here in Europe

https://hkknives.se/collections/knivar

Great recommendation, thank you! This is probably the best option for me at this point. I have to think now whether I am willing to spend 143€ for the CCK 1303 or not... tendency is not to, since it seems quite a lot of money for a simplistic blade all in all.

 

[picturepoet]

I don't think it is very likely, since there is a lot of simple carbon steels that can be had for a fracture the price

yes possibly..anyway the steel feels and behaves similar to white#2, probably there is some chrome added too because it's so unreactive...we probably won't know...after shirogami#2 itself is a very simple tool steel and is so widespread, one can safely assume that it is on the cheaper side...the question is whether it really plays a major role in industrial production...do you have any insights?

 

[miggus]

Hmm, I'm confused: I thought that white #2 doesn't have chrome and is one of the most reactive steels out there for that reason. But I don't want to blow the steel question out of proportion.

What I take away mostly from your experience is that you're pretty happy with the steel of the ChiShun Cleaver, when you say if feels similar to W#2, right?

 

[picturepoet]

in terms of easy sharpening yes...and edge retention probably too ...but just less reactive...I think you got it...in relation to the price you get a very easy cutting cleaver without to have to rework a lot...the profile is very well done for my taste and not as dead flat as with the Moritaka...but that's certainly a matter of taste....I find the weight and size to be very pleasant...so definitely a recommendation..a good knife for little money to find out your own preferences before investing in a custom

 

[drrayeye]

Hi guys,

I adore my full-size Moritaka Chukabocho, and am thinking about a custom that is a tad smaller. Before I commit, I want to find the right size. Which means trying out somewhat smaller cleavers. I have a Denka Large Nakiri which I adore, but it is too small.

So anything that is larger than the Denka (195x60) and smaller than the Moritaka (220x110) would be welcome. No further requirements, since it's about trying out sizes. Oh and I'm in Germany. Feel free to offer anything thats 400€ or less.

Cheaper offers or those I can resell without much loss preferred, so used knives or loaners will be particularly interesting.

Will be used for veggies only, so please only offer slicers, no bone-hacking thick choppers.

Thanks for reading.

I've followed, and now have owned a Shibazi f208-2 for about a year. You can Google for multiple reviews--including several in Europe. It's so outperformed my expectations I almost can't believe it. It should fit right in for size and weight. There is a carbon version, but the vast majority of users have chosen stainless with their cladding.

It should be easy to find online in Europe since it's so popular.

 

[miggus]

Thank you @drrayeye, I overlooked your response.

That shibazi looks quite nice actually. I must say I'm having reservations about stainless, especially in those affordable knives. I have a good routine for carbon, but that tends not to work great on stainless knives, and I distrust simpler stainless even more for this. If I see it right, it can be had for around 40€ from Aliexpress. It seems there is a Shibazi S210 which should be quite similar, but in carbon.

I'm unsure. The CCK 1303 would probably fit the best, but 140€ for it seems very steep.

Shibazi S210 is difficult to find... anyone have a link to a Aliexpress shop that has it? I can only find the stainless versions there, which would be fine, too, but carbon is better.

 

[drrayeye]

Even a few years ago, when I purchased mine, the Shibazi F208 was far from a secret, and other models were also being purchased that were model by model comparable to CCK. In a few places, like Taiwan, where they can be compared side by side, the decision usually comes down to price: and the difference is not very large.

In the USA, the CCK models are twice the price of Shibazi on AMAZON.

 

[xsmx13]

Here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...YQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0DmD8QYPPRFqHqU-1hbw4d

 

[blokey]

Do you have any contact in China that can bring the knife back to you? If so I can arrange something nice.

 

[Jville]

One thing to remember while you are exploring sizes is that it is not just about the length and width dimensions. The weight and balance, of course grind, will make a difference. For example, my small cck stainless has more blade than my small sugimoto cleaver. But the sugimoto feels more substantial in hand and feels more "complete" to me. Usually, I would have a hard time considering something at 190 mm on the edge as a cleaver, but with the sugimoto it is unquestionable a cleaver to me by the way it handles. @blokey gets some nice stuff. If you can get him to hook you up, I would jump on that.

 

[miggus]

it is not just about the length and width dimensions. The weight and balance, of course grind, will make a difference.

Thanks Jville, that is a very good point. It's difficult to compare the different options without handling them. That's why I'd like to try out things. And it is why the CCK 1303 would have been my favorite 210mm cleaver to try, since it's supposed to be the best of the simple ones. Won't be so interesting trying a knife with the right measurements but bad geometry.

But 140€...? I don't know. I probably won't get much of that back when re-selling the knife.

Usually, I would have a hard time considering something at 190 mm on the edge as a cleaver

For me, too, 190mm is not that interesting. The big Nakiri i have is a 195mm with a rounded tip, that makes about 190mm cutting edge length effectively. Not enough... the Moritaka at 220x110mm with 500g is maybe a bit heavier than need be, so I try to find something in between to find the sweet spot.

Turns out, there is a sale at the moment. The Shibazi store is giving 15€ discount on each purchase, so I got a 208-1 and 208-2 for 35 Euro each. i can try those and re-sell them with little loss of money, so let's see about that.

I'd still love to get my hands on a well-done 210mm cleaver, especially a CCK 1303, if anyone wants to get rid of theirs in Europe

 

[drrayeye]

Sounds like a good decision. Hope it works out for you.

 

[miggus]

Sounds like a good decision. Hope it works out for you.

yeah it was very interesting. I'll be posting an update in the cleaver thread soon.

 

[miggus]

KKF is an awesome place

- Got two awesome mid-sized cleavers that people offered me to try free of charge, based on trust
- Will get a CCK 1302 to try out from another awesome member in May
- Just snatched minibatataman's CCK 1303

Now it feels like somewhat of an overkill that I impulse-ordered a 1301 from that Hongkong seller on ebay

Anyhow - this WTT (want to try) thread has been more than fulfilled and I can now try and find my perfect cleaver

So thanks KKF!

 

[Jville]

KKF is an awesome place

- Got two awesome mid-sized cleavers that people offered me to try free of charge, based on trust
- Will get a CCK 1302 to try out from another awesome member in May
- Just snatched minibatataman's CCK 1303

Now it feels like somewhat of an overkill that I impulse-ordered a 1301 from that Hongkong seller on ebay

Anyhow - this WTT (want to try) thread has been more than fulfilled and I can now try and find my perfect cleaver

So thanks KKF!

The 1301 should feel quite different from the 1303