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Here's a post explaining a little more about the Manganese inclusions I mentioned above, in both Coticules and Belgian Blue Whetstone...

This kind of inclusion is generally regarded as quite desirable in Coticules, and it tends to take the form of either dark lines that look like cracks, or kinda blotchy leafy patterns called 'dendrites'. If you look at Tom's stone in the post above, those dark lines I imagine are Manganese, rather than cracks in the traditional sense. Here's a stone of mine with some dendrite type inclusions:

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This one shows both lines and dendrites, you can see how they often occur together:

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To be more precise this is Manganese Dioxide, also known as Pyrolusite, which is a black or dark blue coloured mineral with a slight metallic sheen, and it's softer than steel so it doesn't affect the sharpening ability. The reason it's regarded as desirable is because the formation of Pyrolusite happens along with that of Garnet, so stones with noticeable Manganese inclusions tend to have a high Garnet content and consequently be quite fast.

What's less commented on though is that the same Manganese inclusions can occur in BBW too, especially naturally bonded pieces from near the yellow coticule layer. You can see what it looks like in the blue-ish blobs here on the bottom of the stone and sides:

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And in this picture of the same stone you can see one of these dark blue blobs extending from the BBW up into the coticule, where it becomes one of the leafy dendrite patterns in the first pic in this post:

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So yeah - that's what Manganese inclusions are like in Coticules and BBW, and they’re worth looking out for.
 
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So here's an interesting thing... this a type of stone that I've only seen one other pic of ever, in the museum section of an old Coticule forum. And despite appearances it is apparently a coticule - 'La Petite Blanche Special Sublayer':


http://www.coticule.be/coticule049.html

Mine here is 8 x 2.25 and glued onto an equally thick piece of BBW. A very curious looking thing; the colour, particularly when wet, is quite beautiful, and like nothing else I’ve seen before. And yet it feels very distinctly coticule-like, both to the touch and under a blade.

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Thanks for that last video, I used to think I was pretty good at sharpening! I can cut paper towels, but not like that! Back to the drawing board stones!

Here's my only coticule, I showed it a while back. I've been using the BBW side for touch ups recently, I think I should try using the coti side more.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...sandpaper-a-two-part-review.57956/post-887679
Your knowledge of these amazing stones never ceases to amaze. Happy Saturday!

Edit: just tried the coti side for a touchup and it's great!
 
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So here's an interesting thing... this a type of stone that I've only seen one other pic of ever, in the museum section of an old Coticule forum. And despite appearances it is apparently a coticule - 'La Petite Blanche Special Sublayer':
I saw some bouts of these for sale b/w coticules. I wasn’t paying attention/didn’t know that it wasn’t bbw. Now I want it, just to have/play with it.

You’ve spent a fair bit of my money recently, Oli.
 
La Lune with a big ol green spot; does it affect anything, in anyone’s experience?
 
La Lune with a big ol green spot; does it affect anything, in anyone’s experience?


I'd be with CC above - in most purple slate-y things it shouldn't affect it.

I've only had my La Lune for about a day (received along with the red coti), and it only has one or two tiny blobs of green, so I can't comment definitively. But they seem like the kinda green blobs that wouldn't be a problem. :)
 
La Lune with a big ol green spot; does it affect anything, in anyone’s experience?
No the green spots don't effect anything and I don't even notice or feel any difference. They look cool though. "La Lune" stone is a sedimentary slate which has undergone a mineral transformation called Redox. It is quite possible on certain hones to observe green mineral spots in the form of dots or oval shape which are natural material pockets which does not represent any danger or toxicity for steel, this color is due to conditions where more “reducing” has occurred causing Clinochlore (Chlorite)
The exact mineral composition of "La Lune" hones is: Chlorite, quartz, sericite also composed of microlites of rutiles and tourmaline.
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Here's an interesting, rather pretty and highly unusual stone, which is like nothing I've come across before:

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It's one of the fastest natural stones I've ever used, maybe even the fastest; easily up there with the quickest Washitas, and broadly comparable to an SG500. Perhaps even slightly quicker, though the Coticule will finish in the 1k - 2k range. (So it's also easily the coarsest coti I've ever had).





 
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I have nothing meaningful to say about these stones since they just got delivered today and I haven’t tried them yet (hence the slightly dodgy / immediately post unwrapping pics), but I wouldn’t be able to match @cotedupy ‘s insights anyway. So sharing just for fun.
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I have nothing meaningful to say about these stones since they just got delivered today and I haven’t tried them yet (hence the slightly dodgy / immediately post unwrapping pics), but I wouldn’t be able to match @cotedupy ‘s insights anyway. So sharing just for fun. View attachment 212764View attachment 212765
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Oh sweet! They came from Armes Tools on UK ebay right? I was very tempted to pick up that one on the right myself - very unusual looking stone. Be interested to hear what you think.

The other one with the wavy, well-defined transition looks like the kind of stone that often came from the Old Rock quarry. Should be very good indeed. :)
 
Oh sweet! They came from Armes Tools on UK ebay right? I was very tempted to pick up that one on the right myself - very unusual looking stone. Be interested to hear what you think.

The other one with the wavy, well-defined transition looks like the kind of stone that often came from the Old Rock quarry. Should be very good indeed. :)
The one on the right was from Ames Tools, the other one was from another guy in the UK who seems to have a bunch of hindos, washitas, etc.

What you no doubt already realised but I didn't is that the coticule side of the one on the right/top actually has two semi-distinct layers within it. I thought was just some grime/discolouration. I will report back (and could send your way for a try too I'm sure)
 
The one on the right was from Ames Tools, the other one was from another guy in the UK who seems to have a bunch of hindos, washitas, etc.

What you no doubt already realised but I didn't is that the coticule side of the one on the right/top actually has two semi-distinct layers within it. I thought was just some grime/discolouration. I will report back (and could send your way for a try too I'm sure)
That thick blueish sublayer is a common feature in the "Old Rock" coticules, which are probably from the La Veinette layer. The white lines in the BBW also point to LV.
 
That thick blueish sublayer is a common feature in the "Old Rock" coticules, which are probably from the La Veinette layer. The white lines in the BBW also point to LV.
OK, nice! I thought from a cursory Google this morning that it might have suggested TPB, but my knowledge on these (/all) stones is close to zero. I will report back on how it goes, although I even doubt my ability to meaningfully distinguish fast from slow and fine from not fine… I should be able to comment on hard vs soft!
 
OK, nice! I thought from a cursory Google this morning that it might have suggested TPB, but my knowledge on these (/all) stones is close to zero. I will report back on how it goes, although I even doubt my ability to meaningfully distinguish fast from slow and fine from not fine… I should be able to comment on hard vs soft!
LPB is more of a thin blue layer. While vintage coticules could be from layers not mined anymore and unidentifiable, the white lines in the BBW here are so quintessential LV, paired with the natural combo and creamy surface. Check out Old Rock and Deep Rock coticules, you'll find some that look very similar.
 
That thick blueish sublayer is a common feature in the "Old Rock" coticules

Interesting C, I didn't know that. Would certainly have snapped up myself if I had! Sounds like you've done well with both of those @enchappo, nice scores. :)

Quite a few of the old stones I've found in the UK, people (who know more about these things than I) have said looked like there were from the Old Rock quarry. Seems to be a happy hunting ground here.


What you no doubt already realised but I didn't is that the coticule side of the one on the right/top actually has two semi-distinct layers within it. I thought was just some grime/discolouration. I will report back (and could send your way for a try too I'm sure)


Unfortunately I'm back in the UK now rather than Aus, otherwise would certainly have been fun to try out. Look forward to hearing your thoughts though!
 
Sounds like you've done well with both of those @enchappo, nice scores. :)

Dumb luck obviously. And tbh I only bought two on a whim, with the idea that I'd sell the one I didn't gel with... so may well not keep both

Unfortunately I'm back in the UK now rather than Aus, otherwise would certainly have been fun to try out. Look forward to hearing your thoughts though!

Oh right! That probably saves me from the temptation of buying more stones from you, so that's a good thing for my wallet. :)
 
@cotedupy you and others had me looking for coticules and or bbw this weekend (that and just not happy anymore with my chosera 1k...) when something sparked this morning.. Am I already sitting on one? Let me get my homeboy @stringer (who I am completely behind getting out to his Cafe to see if the cookie chops match the rock skills! (backstory this was my grandfathers who had a barbershop. My father said he remembers him using shaving cream on it....)
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@cotedupy you and others had me looking for coticules and or bbw this weekend (that and just not happy anymore with my chosera 1k...) when something sparked this morning.. Am I already sitting on one? Let me get my homeboy @stringer (who I am completely behind getting out to his Cafe to see if the cookie chops match the rock skills! (backstory this was my grandfathers who had a barbershop. My father said he remembers him using shaving cream on it....) View attachment 213603View attachment 213604View attachment 213605View attachment 213607View attachment 213607View attachment 213608


Oh that’s quite cool isn’t it!

It’s not a coticule though I’m afraid - it’s an old synthetic Barber’s Hone. But should work for knife (or particularly axe) sharpening, as well as razors.

I think I’ve seen that particular brand before, I’ll see if I can dig out any more info...
 
Oh that’s quite cool isn’t it!

It’s not a coticule though I’m afraid - it’s an old synthetic Barber’s Hone. But should work for knife (or particularly axe) sharpening, as well as razors.

I think I’ve seen that particular brand before, I’ll see if I can dig out any more info...
Thanks.... Thought the color was off. That shop was indeed quite the place for a child to horse around when closed and learn what "off color" was way to early haha
 
Thanks.... Thought the color was off. That shop was indeed quite the place for a child to horse around when closed and learn what "off color" was way to early haha


Here's something for a laugh...

I picked up this a few months ago off ebay because it was only a tenner and I was relatively confident it was a coticule that someone had stamped honing honing instructions on. Especially as it was 6x1 which would be a very unusual size for a synthetic stone, and much more common for coticules.

If it was a Barber's Hone then the producer was certainly doing their very best to make it look like a coti:

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And what was it...?

Of course, it was a weirdly-sized, synthetic Barber's Hone that the producer had done their very best to make look like a coti. By covering 1/3rd of it in a sheet of coticule-coloured paper:

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Can't win 'em all eh! It's kinda fun though.
 
Well I finally received my coticule and have been playing around with both sides. I bought a stone from 1stone.fr and it has been fun playing around with both the coticule and BBW sides. I was seduced by buying one the stones from 1stone that is purportedly from an earlier time in the mining(Burton-Rox ownership I think), and we all know old things are simply better than new ones, right?
Anyway might be a silly question but since the coticule and BBW are essentially the same abrasive just in different quantities is there a difference in using a piece of BBW vs a piece coticule as a slurry stone? other than just the density or cutting power of the slurry? I know in japanese natural stones there is quite a bit of difference in using different nagura on different types of stones etc.
 
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One thing about coticule slurry that differs from other stones is the garnet their shape and how hard they are. So I would think the garnet size shape and such would only truly matter on a slurry made with a slurry stone. Once you use a diamond plate to create a slurry with a coticule you break those garnets up and they are all sharp and no longer garnet shaped. It doesn't matter for knifes and can even be a plus I would think. For razors one would only want a slurry with a slurry stone though.
 
Well I finally received my coticule and have been playing around with both sides. I bought a stone from 1stone.fr and it has been fun playing around with both the coticule and BBW sides. I was seduced by buying one the stones from 1stone that is purportedly from an earlier time in the mining(Burton-Rox ownership I think), and we all know old things are simply better than new ones, right?
Anyway might be a silly question but since the coticule and BBW are essentially the same abrasive just in different quantities is there a difference in using a piece of BBW vs a piece coticule as a slurry stone? other than just the density or cutting power of the slurry? I know in japanese natural stones there is quite a bit of difference in using different nagura on different types of stones etc.


I tend to use the same type of slurry stone, but there's no reason you shouldn't play around and see if you prefer something else. Mixing different stones with different slurries is always fun and interesting.

Though tbh in fact; for knives I usually work coticules from a light atoma slurry. This really turbo charges the speed, and is great for both knife edges and polishing. Though as T said above - slurry stones rather than an atoma slurry is the preferred option for razor honing.
 
is there a difference in using a piece of BBW vs a piece coticule as a slurry stone? other than just the density or cutting power of the slurry? I know in japanese natural stones there is quite a bit of difference in using different nagura on different types of stones etc.
One thing to consider is abrasive particle size. Mixing grit size will give different results, and may even be desirable. I don't have an answer if your stones have differing grits, you'll need to experiment, but something to ponder.
 
Looks like I never posted this here, but a few a weeks ago I picked up a very interesting Coticule x BBW grinding / sharpening wheel thing for an absolute pittance on UK ebay (shout out to my man @Rideon66 for flagging it):

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The stone itself is about 6" in diameter, and rather unusual looking once I'd flattened and cleaned up a bit:

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TBH I wasn't expecting it to be all that great, like they had just used whatever bit of rock they could find that was wide enough. But actually was really rather good when I went to try it out; on the finer side of medium, but very fast indeed.

So I emailed Rob at Ardennes Coticule to see if he could shed any light, and turns out that it's likely to be from a highly regarded vein quarried historically at Regne called 'Les Petas':


"Hello Oli,

What a very nice stone you have there!

This looks like a coticule stone mined in the "Regné" quarry.
Looks very similar to a "Le Peta" coticule vein.

I don't know which company made this stone.

Best regards
Rob Celis"



This layer isn't currently exploited, though AC do own the quarry at Regne I believe so there is potential that it may be again in the future, and I would strongly recommend looking out for it if they do.

I've actually been using this as a bench stone so far, rather than in the intended fashion, but here she is in full swing after I got:


 
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I have nothing meaningful to say about these stones since they just got delivered today and I haven’t tried them yet (hence the slightly dodgy / immediately post unwrapping pics), but I wouldn’t be able to match @cotedupy ‘s insights anyway. So sharing just for fun. View attachment 212764View attachment 212765
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Ok, so this is a first polishing session with the one on the left in the past above (in hand on final pic). Knife is a Tsubaya Y.Tanaka B1.

My mediocre skills accounted for, and the fact it needs more time and/or a coarser helper first to fully override the longitudinal scratch pattern put on by the previous owner, this is pretty nice.

Contrast between the core and cladding is great.

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Ok, so this is a first polishing session with the one on the left in the past above (in hand on final pic). Knife is a Tsubaya Y.Tanaka B1.

My mediocre skills accounted for, and the fact it needs more time and/or a coarser helper first to fully override the longitudinal scratch pattern put on by the previous owner, this is pretty nice.

Contrast between the core and cladding is great.

View attachment 217090

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Ah very nice! Was that the coticule or BBW...?
 
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