Dentoukougeishi or traditional Japanese craftsmen

[milkbaby]

The skills and knowledge required to become a member are based more on traditional and technical aspects of the craft and are not generally based on end-user product review.

There will always be outstanding craftsmen that aren't participating in these projects, and while it can be a great honor to be valued by the government as a torch-holder and to have your knowledge and skills appreciated, it's no guarantee to the end user that the product will be optimal for their precise needs.

If you are a performance-minded user and don't care about craft preservation, then a product or maker being designated a traditional craft is not a primary criterion in purchasing decisions.

I think this goes to the heart of the matter with respect to the OP's original post and question. KKF is a relatively small community where certain values such as performance in food prep are considered most important. Whether you showed excellence in traditional craftsmanship to earn Japanese Dentoukougeishi certification or passed the criteria to earn the American Bladesmithing Society's Mastersmith certification don't necessarily play to this core membership value.

Is it nice that your knife was made by recognized certified traditional craftsman or by a certified mastersmith? Yes, but it is not so important to the KKF membership in general.

 

[osakajoe]

105lb? I think I would have died. You have an iron liver

Haha I wish. We use Kilograms in Japan. So you’ll need to double double that and add a few

Was a lot slimmer when I was broke and not married. Having double income with no kids in Osaka doesn’t help when trying to sculpture your body lol

Especially when I walk outside my place and can hit 10 or more affordable standing bars and good restaurants.

I feel like we’re going off topic and turning it into how much I drink in Osaka thread... maybe I’ll continue this in the off topic forums

 

[Midsummer]

105lb? I think I would have died. You have an iron liver

I am betting kg or around 230lb.

 

[captaincaed]

Haha I wish. We use Kilograms in Japan. So you’ll need to double double that and add a few

Was a lot slimmer when I was broke and not married. Having double income with no kids in Osaka doesn’t help when trying to sculpture your body lol

Especially when I walk outside my place and can hit 10 or more affordable standing bars and good restaurants.

I feel like we’re going off topic and turning it into how much I drink in Osaka thread... maybe I’ll continue this in the off topic forums

I think I'll join you, you svelte man.
Yeah, spent 3 years in the Ballard Seattle neighborhood - walking distance to a dozen breweries at the time. Dangerous for pub golf nights. One friend got so drunk he forced himself into a branded baby onesie on the bartenders dare.

Anywho.... I like @milkbaby comment about the distinction in priorities. Preserving traditional craftsmanship is a worthy goal. I'm personally happy to support that ethic. It's easy to lose local personality in a global economy.

I lived in Thailand a couple years and they had an analogous program called OTOP (basically One County One Product). It wasn't a skillful distinction, but it did highlight local products. No single thing was ever that outstanding, but it reminded you where things come from, what to think about when you visit different provinces, what to appreciate in your own province. For example, There was this great lemongrass massage balm in my home province that I CANNOT find anywhere else in the world. It is sublime. Drives me f.ing batty. I would kill for it because the "traditional" Thai balm all smells like Vick's. Seriously, if anyone has this, let me know who you need whacked. I'll do it.

Very long winded point being... God I don't know. After buying and lusting after knives I didn't need and didn't end up liking, I now prioritize what I'm looking for. Is it a performer or a party piece? I have one Ikeda I'll never use, I'll just oil it and look at it because the finish is amazing, and I have plenty of other knives. If it brings me joy either way, the little Marie Kondo inside me makes that sickening adorable chipmunk happy face and I walk away a happy man. If I ignore that little voice, I end up dealing with the Pawn Stars guys inside my head. I'll take the chipmunk thank you.

 

[Elliot]

I think this goes to the heart of the matter with respect to the OP's original post and question. KKF is a relatively small community where certain values such as performance in food prep are considered most important. Whether you showed excellence in traditional craftsmanship to earn Japanese Dentoukougeishi certification or passed the criteria to earn the American Bladesmithing Society's Mastersmith certification don't necessarily play to this core membership value.

Is it nice that your knife was made by recognized certified traditional craftsman or by a certified mastersmith? Yes, but it is not so important to the KKF membership in general.

I can't speak to the Japanese association, but part of this could (I would defer to Jon or someone that knows better) be simply politics, fees, bureaucracy, etc. Not to discount members of the U.S. association like Burke or Rader, who are absolute bad asses, but I don't think it necessarily represents "only the best." Just off the top of my head, Joe from Halcyon Forge... not a Mastersmith. Is his work of any lesser quality? Don't think so. What's more, from my understanding, his work is done in "traditional" manners -- whatever that may mean.

 

[Midsummer]

I want to thank all who have contributed to this thread. It has been a fun ride. I think my answer is that these are valued artisans doing traditional Japanese crafts recognized by the government. Not necessarily the best makers.

Please add anything else if you like.. or let it go. Best to you all.

 

[Eric Chevallier]

Oh Man, learn from you ?
I prefer dont answer to you. I work for all craftmen not my own business.

Eric be careful what you say.

You know where I am and if you want to learn more about knives you know the doors open. Don’t start a fire you can’t put out.

This is my shot across the bow. I’ll write it in French if you don’t understand.

 

[Eric Chevallier]

The logo is ok.
I mean just, Takeda is a good businessman... More famous in foreign country than Japan. I prefer dont tell more. Some "specialist" could be afraid or shocked by my words.


"DitmasPork, post: 626535, member: 1869"]Can you elaborate on why Takeda's (not Tanaka) "cute heart logo is a joke for japanese craftmen"? The heart shaped motif was introduced by "Southern Barbarians" (Portuguese) to Japan sometime between the mid-14th and mid 15th centuries, during the Nanban Trade. Quite a nice logo IMO. [Side note: Portuguese also introduced the cooking technique that became tempura.][/QUOTE]

 

[labor of love]

The fun part is when Osaka J knocks down 7 cocktails and decides to respond

 

[daveb]

Can we pay pal Joe a couple drinks?

 

[Corradobrit1]

I guess TF cannot be a dentoukougeishi because knife making in Tokyo is not recognized as "dentoukougei".

TF might have a retail store and small workshop, to entertain the customers in Tokyo, but his main factory is in Ibaraki, near Osaka

 

[Corradobrit1]

I would argue that it makes a very big difference in understanding both grind and profiles. I really could care less if you can cut a rope.

And maybe this is why some of the best bladesmiths at producing high functioning knives were chefs at one point in their careers eg Mert and Trey

 

[Eric Chevallier]

Yes its what i understand. Joe was maybe drunk. He know its better to have good relationship with other knives lovers, especially in our Osaka small world.
Joe, dont let the beer talk instead you

The fun part is when Osaka J knocks down 7 cocktails and decides to respond

 

[Silky]

TF might have a retail store and small workshop, to entertain the customers in Tokyo, but his main factory is in Ibaraki, near Osaka

Ibaraki is actually north of Tokyo, about an hour by train. I believe his workshop is around Tsukuba city, might be misremembering. Side-note, but Heiji is also in Ibaraki.