Did I ruin my stone??

[hibbs00]

Hey everyone,
I bought a shapton pro 220. The first time using it I was practicing thinning a cheap faberware chef knife. Turned out ok, used a 140 diamond plate from chef knives to go as a lapping plate after sharpening and scrubbed with a brush and running water. Let the stone dry overnight and in the morning the side of the stone I used feels really smooth. Did I do something wrong? I don't have much money to spend on other stuff for the stone unless it's cheap. Any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[M1k3]

Don't think you ruined it. Have you tried using it? That'll be the true test.

 

[hibbs00]

Don't think you ruined it. Have you tried using it? That'll be the true test.

I haven't yet. It was just this morning I noticed it's smooth and though I would ask before using it again in case I did do something wrong. Too much pressure or shouldn't use the diamond plate or something. Do you know if the diamond plate also acts as a cleaner so it won't get clogged?

 

[Heckel7302]

I haven't yet. It was just this morning I noticed it's smooth and though I would ask before using it again in case I did do something wrong. Too much pressure or shouldn't use the diamond plate or something. Do you know if the diamond plate also acts as a cleaner so it won't get clogged?

You didn’t ruin it. If you didn’t lap it before the first time using it, then it still had the crust on it. The other five sides still have the crust. What you are feeling now is the true part of the stone. Even a low grit stone like 220 does not feel rough like sandpaper.

The diamond plate removes the top layer of stone and any accumulated swarf that might be lodged in the stone.

 

[GoodMagic]

Agree with Heckel. Your stone is fine, just use it and see.

 

[hibbs00]

You didn’t ruin it. If you didn’t lap it before the first time using it, then it still had the crust on it. The other five sides still have the crust. What you are feeling now is the true part of the stone. Even a low grit stone like 220 does not feel rough like sandpaper.

The diamond plate removes the top layer of stone and any accumulated swarf that might be lodged in the stone.

Thank you! That is a huge relief! I'll give it another go tonight then. So I shouldn't need anything else to maintain the stone?

 

[M1k3]

Thank you! That is a huge relief! I'll give it another go tonight then. So I shouldn't need anything else to maintain the stone?

Nope, just the lapping plate.

P.S. Use light pressure with the plate (you don't need feather light pressure either. Just don't push hard on the plate is all). It'll extend the life of the plate.

 

[hibbs00]

Nope, just the lapping plate.

P.S. Use light pressure with the plate (you don't need feather light pressure either. Just don't push hard on the plate is all). It'll extend the life of the plate.

Thank you everyone. Saved me a ton of stress lol. Btw, I don't think the diamond plate was labeled as a lapping plate. I think it was advertised as a sharpening stone but I didn't think it matters too much. I didn't have much luck with it sharpening so just made it my flattening stone haha

 

[M1k3]

Thank you everyone. Saved me a ton of stress lol. Btw, I don't think the diamond plate was labeled as a lapping plate. I think it was advertised as a sharpening stone but I didn't think it matters too much. I didn't have much luck with it sharpening so just made it my flattening stone haha

They're all pretty much the same. Diamond bonded to a metal plate. Don't fret the small details. Besides the quality.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

You absolutely can loose the aggression of coarse stones from flattening on a diamond plate, especially a well worn one, instead of using loose grit on glass or tile. On softer stones that break down quickly and expose fresh new abrasive particles this doesn't really matter, but you may need to press harder to start the breakdown. However on harder bonded stones this will not self-correct. Nothing is ruined in the latter case, you just need to dress the stone properly.

I have not used the Shapton Pro 220 and everyone else is saying you're fine, so presumably it falls into the softer self-conditioning category, but this is something to keep in mind for the future. As a diamond plate wears down the diamond grains become flattened, making the loss of agression more pronounced, so it can sneak up on you over time. If you ever doubt if a stone is cutting to its full potential try dressing using loose grit of several times the particle size of that in the stone.

Here is a video that showcases otherwise aggressive Norton India stones intentionally smoothed with diamond grinding, for special use by a machinist. This shows just how radically the performance of a hard bond stone can be altered by dressing.

 

[hibbs00]

You absolutely can loose the aggression of coarse stones from flattening on a diamond plate, especially a well worn one, instead of using loose grit on glass or tile. On softer stones that break down quickly and expose fresh new abrasive particles this doesn't really matter, but you may need to press harder to start the breakdown. However on harder bonded stones this will not self-correct. Nothing is ruined in the latter case, you just need to dress the stone properly.

I have not used the Shapton Pro 220 and everyone else is saying you're fine, so presumably it falls into the softer self-conditioning category, but this is something to keep in mind for the future. As a diamond plate wears down the diamond grains become flattened, making the loss of agression more pronounced, so it can sneak up on you over time. If you ever doubt if a stone is cutting to its full potential try dressing using loose grit of several times the particle size of that in the stone.

Here is a video that showcases otherwise aggressive Norton India stones intentionally smoothed with diamond grinding, for special use by a machinist. This shows just how radically the performance of a hard bond stone can be altered by dressing.

What would you recommend instead of a diamond plate?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

What would you recommend instead of a diamond plate?

Loose grit on plate glass, or other suitable hard and flat substrate. Like this.

 

[hibbs00]

Loose grit on plate glass, or other suitable hard and flat substrate. Like this.

Interesting. I haven't seen this method before

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Interesting. I haven't seen this method before

Here's another video of it.

 

[hibbs00]

Here's another video of it.

I'm not sure I can afford everything I would need but I really like this idea! Thank you!

 

[Up_dog128]

I agree with Mr.Wizard that using old diamond plates on hard stones (like Nortons) can definitely smooth them into a more refine stone. However, I have rarely found that to be the case with synthetic waterstones, since they are designed to break down and release fresh abrasive relatively quickly. And this is definitely the case with the SP 220; that stone is a mud bath. But if you ever do decide to try the loose grit method, you can get a pound of any grit up to 1k for $4 from KingsleyNorth.com, and my local glass shop will sell me a glass plate for $5. You can also sometimes get (for free) a slab off-cut from somewhere that sells granite countertops.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I'm not sure I can afford everything I would need but I really like this idea! Thank you!

If you mean the flattening setup and not the stones (I cannot afford that myself) one of the advantages of loose grit is the low cost.

Go to a home supply store, find a straight edge, carry it over to the flooring section and look at some of the 12" * 12" granite floor tiles. Find one that is flat with the straight edge laid at multiple positions and angles. The saw-cut back of the tile may be flatter than the polished front; it was for me. That should cost under $10.

Get a set of grits intended for hobby rock tumbling, either from a local shop or online, e.g. any of these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232235689304
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233269134063
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332476571062

 

[Mr.Wizard]

and my local glass shop will sell me a glass plate for $5

Is that 3/8" glass? 1/4" flexes more than you might expect.

 

[hibbs00]

I agree with Mr.Wizard that using old diamond plates on hard stones (like Nortons) can definitely smooth them into a more refine stone. However, I have rarely found that to be the case with synthetic waterstones, since they are designed to break down and release fresh abrasive relatively quickly. And this is definitely the case with the SP 220; that stone is a mud bath. But if you ever do decide to try the loose grit method, you can get a pound of any grit up to 1k for $4 from KingsleyNorth.com, and my local glass shop will sell me a glass plate for $5. You can also sometimes get (for free) a slab off-cut from somewhere that sells granite countertops.

Thank you! What grit would you recommend? Is there a one grit for all stones or do I need multiple? I have shapton pro 220 and 1k and King 1k/6k combo

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Thank you! What grit would you recommend? Is there a one grit for all stones or do I need multiple? I have shapton pro 220 and 1k and King 1k/6k combo

I recommend the kits I linked above which each include a coarse, medium and fine (plus a superfine you'll not need.) But wait on a minute, you may not need any of this. If the Shapton Pro 220 is your only stone under JIS #1000, and it is fast-breakdown type, you are probably fine with the diamond plate you're already using. The King stone should also be fast breakdown; my Deluxe #1200 certainly is. I believe the Shapton Pro 1K is quite a bit harder, but I would bet the #140 plate already leaves it aggressive enough, unless it (the plate) is really worn out.

 

[Up_dog128]

I'd get a pack in the 60-90 grit range for using with coarse stones and for heavy flattening work. But you don't wanna stop there on your finishing stones, cuz it leaves too rough of a surface for a high grit stone, so I'd also get something around 220-400. Alternatively, sometimes I flatten my coarse stones on the 90 grit first, then do my stones in the 1k range using the same slurry, cuz SiC breaks down (becomes finer) pretty quickly and leaves a decent enough finish for those stones (I wouldn't do this with my 4k-6k finishing stones). When you see grit rating written with a slash, as in 60/90, that means that it is not finely graded and it will be a mix of grits between those two numbers, which is fine.
But again, you don't really need this since you currently have a diamond plate

Is that 3/8" glass? 1/4" flexes more than you might expect.

1/4", but I don't think that it's flexing since it's fully supported by my countertop.

Edit: With my supr slow internet connection, I just saw that Mr.Wizard said more or less the same thing

 

[hibbs00]

I recommend the kits I linked above which each include a coarse, medium and fine (plus a superfine you'll not need.) But wait on a minute, you may not need any of this. If the Shapton Pro 220 is your only stone under JIS #1000, and it is fast-breakdown type, you are probably fine with the diamond plate you're already using. The King stone should also be fast breakdown; my Deluxe #1200 certainly is. I believe the Shapton Pro 1K is quite a bit harder, but I would bet the #140 plate already leaves it aggressive enough, unless it (the plate) is really worn out.

The diamond plate is fairly new. I use it every time I sharpen to build a little slurry before I sharpen. Sometimes after I'm done to make sure the stone remains flat. It's not as rough as it use to be but it seems fine for now. It's grit has probably increased from use though

 

[hibbs00]

I'd get a pack in the 60-90 grit range for using with coarse stones and for heavy flattening work. But you don't wanna stop there on your finishing stones, cuz it leaves too rough of a surface for a high grit stone, so I'd also get something around 220-400. Alternatively, sometimes I flatten my coarse stones on the 90 grit first, then do my stones in the 1k range using the same slurry, cuz SiC breaks down (becomes finer) pretty quickly and leaves a decent enough finish for those stones (I wouldn't do this with my 4k-6k finishing stones). When you see grit rating written with a slash, as in 60/90, that means that it is not finely graded and it will be a mix of grits between those two numbers, which is fine.
But again, you don't really need this since you currently have a diamond plate

Thank you. I'm definitely going to have to learn more about this. I'm really determined to perfect my sharpening and properly care for my equipment. It's a ways down the road but I hope to make some extra money sharpening for people once I'm good at it. I did get my wusthof to push cut receipt paper on the 90/90/90 degree angle so I think I'm on my way

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Up_dog128, thanks for remind me about grain friability—the propensity to fracture into finer grains. This is an important point to cover. Silicon carbide grit will indeed fracture into finer particles in use, and with experience you can predict, control, and use this phenomenon.

• On on hard stones, especially very hard stones like sintered ceramic, pressing hard will crush the grain prematurely.
• On very soft stones the grit may last a lot longer, and hard pressure may embed it into the stone instead of breaking it down.
• One can, with care and medium-hardness stones, use the same #50 grit to dress an entire series of stones from coarse to fine.
• If reusing grit you must make sure that you break down all of it, not leaving coarse bits at the edges that will contaminate later.
• It is far more convenient to have the right size of grit at hand rather than having to rely on breakdown.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

It's a ways down the road but I hope to make some extra money sharpening for people once I'm good at it.

I tried it years ago with an Edge Pro. Be prepared to receive horrendously abused knives with an "edge" as blunt as the spine, unless you have a better clientele or more luck than me, or you are willing to reject them. Lacking power grinding I couldn't handle it. I know now that some of those soft crappy knives could have been rebeveled with reasonable effort using a big Bahco hand file. If you've never tried a good file it makes a mockery of any coarse stone if the steel is soft enough for it to bite.

 

[mengwong]

What happens to the plate glass under the grit? Does it get abraded too? Is there dishing?

 

[hibbs00]

I tried it years ago with an Edge Pro. Be prepared to receive horrendously abused knives with an "edge" as blunt as the spine, unless you have a better clientele or more luck than me, or you are willing to reject them. Lacking power grinding I couldn't handle it. I know now that some of those soft crappy knives could have been rebeveled with reasonable effort using a big Bahco hand file. If you've never tried a good file it makes a mockery of any coarse stone if the steel is soft enough for it to bite.

That's a good point. I might have to have some sort of scale on price so a knife that takes 15 mins and a knife that takes 90 mins aren't the same price. I don't have many other skills besides cooking so hopefully I can make this work eventually. I'll be able to make my own hours and do what I can

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I will echo those who say I think you're fine.

I have an SP220 and it gets a diamond lapping. If it feels too smooth, put some elbow into it next time. It is just the surface. You haven't done any sub-surface damage or altered the composition or structure of the stone.

 

[M1k3]

What happens to the plate glass under the grit? Does it get abraded too? Is there dishing?

Small amount of dishing. Doesn't happen that fast.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

That's a good point. I might have to have some sort of scale on price so a knife that takes 15 mins and a knife that takes 90 mins aren't the same price. I don't have many other skills besides cooking so hopefully I can make this work eventually. I'll be able to make my own hours and do what I can

I wanted to get my brand out there and was willing to accept things I should not have. It probably backfired with these people telling their friends with similarly abused knives about my service. Be selective about what you accept. There are sharpening services that will slap it on a belt grinder for 30 seconds and call it done; let THEM service these people.

You do also need to distinguish between simple sharpening and repair. When a chef's knife has a big frown that's a lot of work to repair. Likewise a broken tip, for which you'll at the least need a hard stone like a coarse India or Crystolon, or you'll gouge the devil out of your regular roughing stones. If you will service western knives you need to be able to reduce bolsters and make it look professional, or at least appropriate.

What happens to the plate glass under the grit? Does it get abraded too? Is there dishing?

Yes, but not very fast. Granite dishes slower in my experience. I actually have three granite tiles now so that when they all finally become too dished I can use the three plate method to lap them against each other back to flat.