Gaps in the "traditional" japanese set

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

I am sure I'll get all three of them thrown after me for posting the question that was behind a few other questions I asked here in the last couple of weeks...

So, in theory, a Usuba-Deba-Yanagiba set, all kataba, is supposed to cover all tasks not involving land animal or poultry meat adequately, right? So how would the theoretical traditional chef go about:

-Vegetables and fruit that have extremely hard seeds or pits that you will need to/will risk to contact with the edge: mango, plums, avocado (hard pit that you need to rub the edge against, unless you use a technique very different from what is common in the west. I was told here clearly to keep a trad deba of such stuff, but a usuba edge would even more likely take some damage), small chilies (the damn seeds tend to turn into edge protectors on anything very keen)

-Apples, Pears and other fruit with woody parts that you might want to cut through... or garlic stems/roots for that matter...

-Hard shelled squashes that could trap and break off or bend the edge

-Nuts? Or do they just not feature much in traditional cuisine there?

 

[havox07]

I think some of the fruits and vegetables you mentioned aren't very often seen in Japanese cuisine, and secondly, there are definitely gaps and limitations for single bevelled knives. I'm sure most Japanese chefs do not limit themselves to the classic set.

 

[Ruso]

I think they use an axe, for all this hardee staff. Except avocado, which's pit is actually quite soft.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Can't figure out whether the axe was sarcasm or truth

BTW, kind of glad i'm vegetarian and ichthyophobe (and dabbling in about every asian cuisine *except* japanese ) so I'll only be ever tempted to go real upmarket on usubas but not on the other two - though it doesn't help that they are only NEAR useless then . Still, the logic of the trad set kind of has me fascinated...

 

[ThEoRy]

I believe it's called a traditional set because it deals with traditional foods. Don't forget there are other knives that can supplement the three. Nakiri comes to mind.

 

[daveb]

The book "Japanese Kitchen Knives" provides a good discussion of the three traditional blades, illustrates technique with each an even has some recipes. Every geek here should have a copy.

 

[mise_en_place]

+1 to Dave's comment above. I really like that book.

Even shows you how to break down a crab with a deba-- something I wouldn't be trying unless I felt rich enough to send the knife out for repairs.

 

[Pensacola Tiger]

+1 to Dave's comment above. I really like that book.

Even shows you how to break down a crab with a deba-- something I wouldn't be trying unless I felt rich enough to send the knife out for repairs.

Deba? Everyone knows you use a nakiri to break down a crab.

[video=youtube;CXJRlpEfPnU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXJRlpEfPnU&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[ThEoRy]

In her defense, she calls it a cleaver. Lol

 

[mise_en_place]

You're right, Rick. This video is from Expert Village.

Who are we to argue?

 

[daveb]

Doesn't that belong in the "stupid chit that stupid people do with chitty knives" thread?

 

[ThEoRy]

I think that video is one of the founding fathers of that thread.

 

[foody518]

Can't figure out whether the axe was sarcasm or truth

BTW, kind of glad i'm vegetarian and ichthyophobe (and dabbling in about every asian cuisine *except* japanese ) so I'll only be ever tempted to go real upmarket on usubas but not on the other two - though it doesn't help that they are only NEAR useless then . Still, the logic of the trad set kind of has me fascinated...

Similar boat for me (well, maybe not the phobia), and being a lefty (50% upcharge!), probably the best that it will only ever end up being just one of the knives - Usuba :biggrin:

 

[Marek07]

The book "Japanese Kitchen Knives" provides a good discussion of the three traditional blades, illustrates technique with each an even has some recipes. Every geek here should have a copy.

Just to be sure, is "Japanese Kitchen Knives" book you refer to by Yasuo Konishi Nozaki & Kate Klippensteen?

 

[daveb]

This one.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...+book&sprefix=Japanese+Kitchen+Knives,aps,173

 

[Marek07]

This one.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...+book&sprefix=Japanese+Kitchen+Knives,aps,173

Thanks Dave. That's the one I was looking at. The bookseller's listing concatenated the author's and photographer's names in their listing and came up with Yasuo Konishi Nozaki (from by Hiromitsu Nozaki + Yasuo Konishi). I'll order a copy now to assist in my on-going edumacation into all things J.
:biggrin:

 

[Marek07]

Thanks Dave B. Book finally arrived today. From a quick skim, it looks pretty darn good and I'm looking forward to devouring it. Great recommendation!
:happy3: