Hello from Minneapolis

[advan]

Joined a few months ago. Been lurking for quite awhile. Thanks for all the knowledge you guys contribute! I have been collecting and using Spyderco pocket knives for years. Have had their MB-26 kitchen knives for awhile. We starting cooking a lot more at home and I wanted to upgrade and here I am! So far I have acquired:

Hitohira Togashi White #1 Stainless Clad Kasumi Gyuto 240mm
Sakai Kikumori - Yugiri - Tanaka - Stainless Clad Blue #1 - 150mm Kiritsuke Petty
Tetsujin Blue #2 Kasumi Gyuto 210mm
Kagekiyo White #2 Santoku 180mm
Nakagawa Blue #1 270mm Sujihiki

I am loving all of them and the patinas. LOL Now the MB-26 Spyderco kitchen knives are just used as beaters and for guests. They have been abused and surprisingly have never chipped. I have a wicked edge guided sharpener for bevel resets and use the Spyderco sharpmaker to maintain my knives. I think it is time I get into free hand. Any suggestions for a freehand beginner? I'm seeing 400/1000/3000 as a suggested starter. What about type? Holders? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! -Chad

 

[Matus]

Welcome to the forums.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Welcome.

You have good taste in pocket knives. There are Spyderco's and there are everything else.

 

[runninscared]

the shapton pro 1k is a fantastic all around stone for the price. Pick one up and just start practicing with any beater knife, you don’t need a bunch of stones to start. Many of the concepts you are (probably) familiar with while sharpening pocket knives on your wicked edge/sharpmaker will carry over like burr formation etc. The biggest challenge is Holding a consistent angle. What angle you choose matters not nearly as much as just maintaining it.

Jon broida @ japaneseknifeimports has a fantastic playlist on YouTube showing the fundamentals of freehand kitchen knife sharpening if you search for it. He’s a member/vendor here and is incredibly knowledgeable on all things kitchen knife related.

Good luck

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

@advan, I'd recommend starting a thread in the Sharpening Station sub-forum asking for advice on a beginner setup. It sounds like you've already done some research so that's good. There's a range of directions you can go and different philosophies. I'll offer my take...

First is deciding on splash-n-go or soakers. Soakers give better feedback but they need to be soaked, some can be permanently and some cannot and those that cannot you also need to allow for drying time before putting away.

I prefer SnG, especially when starting out. I'm a fan of Shapton Kuromaku (Pro) and Glass. The SK's come in a case that can double as a holder but it's a little sloppy. But it does work. I'm a big fan of the SG stones.

I'd get a universal stone holder either way but it isn't necessary. A block of wood can suffice.

There is a pervasive philosophy out there to start with and master the 1k stone. It's a sound philosophy but not one I have a strong connection to. In fact, I don't own a 1k at all.

There is another common philosophy to start with higher grits vs. lower grits. The idea being the higher grit will be enough to maintain an already good edge and won't remove much metal while you learn. This one I have slightly stronger feelings against. First, this requires that the edge you're starting with is already good. This is OFTEN not the case and some makers intentionally leave the edge just slightly unfinished believing it is proper to let the end user put their own edge on the blade. Also, it can be frustrating as you don't get as much feed back.

So, I'm an advocate for starting with a little lower grit. Here, it is extremely hard to beat the SG500. Outstanding stone that can handle some fairly heavy tasks but still not so aggressive to dish quickly or be nervous about. It can be had in a double thick version too if you want.

From here you can jump to the one to two thou of your choice. I think the SK line has a 1.5k but again, I'm a big fan of the SG2k. This stone is a great refiner from the 500 but can also be a perfectly serviceable finished edge.

A SG500 and 2k is a great starting combo with a lot of versatility.

Get a diamond flattening stone. Lots of folks will say this is another thing that can wait. I believe in flat stones and I don't like messing with sandpaper and stuff. I don't like silicon-carbide flatteners as they too dish so I say stick with diamond. The Atoma 140 is the most popular choice but you can get and get by with cheaper options if needed.

Don't bother with a strop right now. You can strop on the back of an old belt, denim, cardboard, etc. No need for fancy diamond compounds to start. You can even use wheel polish or similar to start out but the green chromium oxide bricks are very common and get the job done. Stropping is a whole discussion in itself.

From the SG500 and 2k you'll need to decide if you then want to go lower or higher. This can wait but either way, you'll likely eventually want to make that decision. Again, I'm an advocate for going lower first as you can do more work with a lower grit stone. Lots of choices and opinions for this and the higher grit.

That said, a very good starting setup would be SG500, 2k and 4k. You can add in a lower grit stone later after you do more research and decide what you think might be best for you.

 

[heldentenor]

Welcome @advan -- there is a fairly healthy-sized Minnesota/Wisconsin crew around KKF. HumbleHomeCook's advice above is pretty much spot on. About a decade ago, I started with a 500, 1200, and 6000, but I wish I hadn't bought the 6000 until I'd really figured out edge formation and consistency. Didn't do me or my knives any harm beyond the occasional scatch from a stone gouge, but I'd have gotten better edges from a consistent 1200 finish than from a more refined but uneven, inconsistent polish.

The importance of a diamond flattening plate is essential. Atoma is my favorite, but DMT XXC (extra-extra-coarse) aren't bad and are considerably cheaper.

 

[jacobwilder5]

Welcome!

I’ll echo Humbles solid advice on stone selection and add some additional value to a progression like 500, 2k, 4k. (My faves are Shapton Glass 500, Shapton pro 2k, and gesshin 4K)

When I first got into kitchen knives after many years as a pocket knife enthusiast (Spyderco is the goat), I used to think high grit finish was the way to go on all knives.

I’ve since learned a functional kitchen knife edge is different and the steel type matters too. I use each of the stones listed as a finisher/touch up stone based on steel.

(General rule of thumb)
Softer stainless steel = finished on 500
Harder stainless steel = finished on 2k
Carbon steel = finished on 4K (2k works fine too).

Everyone has their own method but this is what works for me to get a nice functional edge and something I wished Id known known sooner.

 

[advan]

Wow! Thanks for the welcomes and the detailed responses! Like you guys assumed, I have the basics of sharpening down, forming a bur and knocking it off etc. I'm just don't trust my free hand angle holding. That's what is holding me back. I'll just practice on the Spyderco kitchen knives for a bit to learn and gain some confidence. Thank you again guys! This is a great forum! -Chad

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Wow! Thanks for the welcomes and the detailed responses! Like you guys assumed, I have the basics of sharpening down, forming a bur and knocking it off etc. I'm just don't trust my free hand angle holding. That's what is holding me back. I'll just practice on the Spyderco kitchen knives for a bit to learn and gain some confidence. Thank you again guys! This is a great forum! -Chad

Have you used a Sharpie on the edge to help inform you of how you're doing? It's a great visual tool when learning!

 

[advan]

Have you used a Sharpie on the edge to help inform you of how you're doing? It's a great visual tool when learning!

Yep! It is a must when I'm reprofiling on the WE to get an idea on what the factory angle is and how far I have until I apex. I've also used it on the sharpmaker on smaller knives that can't be clamped(like the Spyderco Ladybug or McBee).

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Yep! It is a must when I'm reprofiling on the WE to get an idea on what the factory angle is and how far I have until I apex. I've also used it on the sharpmaker on smaller knives that can't be clamped(like the Spyderco Ladybug or McBee).

I used a KME for a number of years. I went from free hand to that and back to free hand. Coming from the EDC world and fixed systems, one of the hardest things for your brain to accept is stop worrying too much about angle. I know it sounds counterintuitive but you really don't need to stress it as much as that world makes us think.

No doubt angle is king but you're going to have some variation when free handing. The better you get the less there will be but even Shawn Houston and Michael Christy have some variation. With Japanese knives, the grinds tend to be thin enough to be much more forgiving that pocket knives.

You'll get it!

 

[advan]

I used a KME for a number of years. I went from free hand to that and back to free hand. Coming from the EDC world and fixed systems, one of the hardest things for your brain to accept is stop worrying too much about angle. I know it sounds counterintuitive but you really don't need to stress it as much as that world makes us think.

No doubt angle is king but you're going to have some variation when free handing. The better you get the less there will be but even Shawn Houston and Michael Christy have some variation. With Japanese knives, the grinds tend to be thin enough to be much more forgiving that pocket knives.

You'll get it!

Thanks for the encouragement! It's not really the angle, it's holding a consistent angle that is going to be a learning curve. I am excited to learn, it's been something I've been wanting to do, I just haven't got around to diving in.

 

[mike59]

I'll echo what everyone else has said and all good recommendations - try to briefly add my experiences being somewhat new to it also ... about 1 1/2 years freehand

Decide on soaker vs. spash-n-go.

SG 500 - splash-n-go - awesome stone - get the double thick and never look back. This was amongst my first stones purchase and I love it! I've never seen anyone say anything bad about it. Good on all steels also.

Soakers - my first stones
- Cerax 1000 - also awesome, feels great to use, buttery, creamy, ... etc. I love this one also.
- Rika 5000 - same as Cerax 1000 in all regards - love it. People who know more than me will tell you it finishes more like a 4K

I got tired of waiting for soaking and the pre/post time so moved to splash-n-go
- Naniwa Pro (previously called Chosera) 800 - like this a lot. Not as nice feeling as my Cerax 1000 but fast cutter. People in the know will tell you if finishes more like a 1K
- Naniwa Pro (previously called Chosera) 3000 - like this one a lot also but only used it a couple times.

Re the higher grits ... just a home cook and I don't have any of the fancy carbon Japanese chef knives but mostly stainless of some variety - a Mercer, a gifted Cutco, Chicago Cutlery, a cheap but actually decent non-name Chinese made knife (practice knife), ... etc. The above stone all work on these and I have found that I don't really need to go above 1000 grit for kitchen duties. I did have some practice grocery store knives that was hard to sharpen with anything other than my belt sander 800/1000 is good for my use. I'm actually going to try something on just my SG500 to see what I think.

Flattening - I use an Atoma 140 - it's perfect for the job. I'd say that you definitely want to flatten your stones and when first starting you'll need it more than later when you get better at using the whole stone. You'll still need it eventually. I've heard that Chef Knives To Go has a cheaper diamond plate that's supposed to be pretty good but no experience.

Burr removal - expecially on cheaper stainless - I've done it with stropping but came across what is referred to as "the Kippington method of burr removal" and have to say that with cheap soft stainless it's been a game changer for me. Kind of takes how I used to finish to an extreme so not necessarily earth shattering but was super helpful to me. Search for it here - I think there was an entire thread on it.

Re angles ... I have a set of the Wedgek angle wedges. When first starting I'd pick one, set my knife against it just to get an idea/reference and then go for it. I'd check each time I switched sides but that's about it. Before long you'll know where you're going but I found it helpful to give me an idea of what I was looking for at the start ... and they're cheap. As others have said, don't let it rule your life.

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

Mike

 

[advan]

I'll echo what everyone else has said and all good recommendations - try to briefly add my experiences being somewhat new to it also ... about 1 1/2 years freehand

Decide on soaker vs. spash-n-go.

SG 500 - splash-n-go - awesome stone - get the double thick and never look back. This was amongst my first stones purchase and I love it! I've never seen anyone say anything bad about it. Good on all steels also.

Soakers - my first stones
- Cerax 1000 - also awesome, feels great to use, buttery, creamy, ... etc. I love this one also.
- Rika 5000 - same as Cerax 1000 in all regards - love it. People who know more than me will tell you it finishes more like a 4K

I got tired of waiting for soaking and the pre/post time so moved to splash-n-go
- Naniwa Pro (previously called Chosera) 800 - like this a lot. Not as nice feeling as my Cerax 1000 but fast cutter. People in the know will tell you if finishes more like a 1K
- Naniwa Pro (previously called Chosera) 3000 - like this one a lot also but only used it a couple times.

Re the higher grits ... just a home cook and I don't have any of the fancy carbon Japanese chef knives but mostly stainless of some variety - a Mercer, a gifted Cutco, Chicago Cutlery, a cheap but actually decent non-name Chinese made knife (practice knife), ... etc. The above stone all work on these and I have found that I don't really need to go above 1000 grit for kitchen duties. I did have some practice grocery store knives that was hard to sharpen with anything other than my belt sander 800/1000 is good for my use. I'm actually going to try something on just my SG500 to see what I think.

Flattening - I use an Atoma 140 - it's perfect for the job. I'd say that you definitely want to flatten your stones and when first starting you'll need it more than later when you get better at using the whole stone. You'll still need it eventually. I've heard that Chef Knives To Go has a cheaper diamond plate that's supposed to be pretty good but no experience.

Burr removal - expecially on cheaper stainless - I've done it with stropping but came across what is referred to as "the Kippington method of burr removal" and have to say that with cheap soft stainless it's been a game changer for me. Kind of takes how I used to finish to an extreme so not necessarily earth shattering but was super helpful to me. Search for it here - I think there was an entire thread on it.

Re angles ... I have a set of the Wedgek angle wedges. When first starting I'd pick one, set my knife against it just to get an idea/reference and then go for it. I'd check each time I switched sides but that's about it. Before long you'll know where you're going but I found it helpful to give me an idea of what I was looking for at the start ... and they're cheap. As others have said, don't let it rule your life.

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

Mike

Thanks for the reply! I know all too well about deburring soft stainless when I sharpen friends cheap folders. I much prefer to sharpen harder PM tool/stainless steels just from the ease of deburr alone. But for softer stainless, I have been liking coarser edges(stop at 400g), they seem to last longer. Started trying this after Vivi over on the Spyderco forum using coarser edges for H1 and having great results. -Chad

 

[advan]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys! I ended up with Shapton Glass 500, 2000, and 4000 as a starter kit along with a holder and 140 diamond plate for flattening.