Hi, new here wanting to learn more about sharpening
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Welcome to the forums.
Where abouts are you from?
Which knives are we talking about?
When I sharpen Wustoff, Mundials, Vics or similar, I sharpen on circa 400 then deburr on circa 1000.
Quite different to my approach to most Japanese style knives.
Where abouts are you from?
Which knives are we talking about?
When I sharpen Wustoff, Mundials, Vics or similar, I sharpen on circa 400 then deburr on circa 1000.
Quite different to my approach to most Japanese style knives.
Hi, I'm from Australia.
I've tried to sharpen my cheap kitchen knives before I move on to expensive knives. But there is no way I can get them this sharp to slice through tomato. Even if I could, the edge probably wouldn't last long.
I'm using a 1000 grit whetstone and then polishing on a black Arkansas stone, but I find my knives can't cut through tomato or mango skin unless I apply substantial pressure. They cut through paper and everything else fine.
I also have a ChefX Kusunoki Slicing knife (420J2 Japanese Stainless Steel).
Cheers
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Welcome.
420J2 is an American steel as far as I know. Not that it matters though. It is a very low-end steel that is not nice to sharpen.
I'd guess you're starting at 1k is already too high for it and for sure I wouldn't hone on a black Ark for tomato slicing. As you note, you're creating a highly polished edge so it will likely lack the bite needed to "dig" into the tomato skin.
First step I'd recommend is sticking with the 1k and doing your best to de-burr.
Then I'd recommend an inexpensive knife in shirogami.
420J2 is an American steel as far as I know. Not that it matters though. It is a very low-end steel that is not nice to sharpen.
I'd guess you're starting at 1k is already too high for it and for sure I wouldn't hone on a black Ark for tomato slicing. As you note, you're creating a highly polished edge so it will likely lack the bite needed to "dig" into the tomato skin.
First step I'd recommend is sticking with the 1k and doing your best to de-burr.
Then I'd recommend an inexpensive knife in shirogami.
Yeah, I got the Oz bit. I was wondering which part?
I'm still not sure which knives you are sharpening. If they are really cheap, the steel may be cr*p, so don't expect to be able to make them very sharp. You can make Krupps steel (such as is found in Wusties, Vic's etc) reasonably sharp. Not nearly as sharp as most Japanese style knives though.
I'd recommend staying below 1000 grit on Western stainless
Welcome.
420J2 is an American steel as far as I know. Not that it matters though. It is a very low-end steel that is not nice to sharpen.
I'd guess you're starting at 1k is already too high for it and for sure I wouldn't hone on a black Ark for tomato slicing. As you note, you're creating a highly polished edge so it will likely lack the bite needed to "dig" into the tomato skin.
First step I'd recommend is sticking with the 1k and doing your best to de-burr.
Then I'd recommend an inexpensive knife in shirogami.
Are there any shirogami utility knives would you recommend, either in low price or high end...
Adelaide to be precise
Just out of curiosity, are you able to slice a tomato like in that video when sharpening your Wustoff, Mundials, Vics after 1000 grit?
Oh friend, there's tons of options out there.
I'd recommend you copy this:
The "Which Knife Should I Buy?" Questionnaire - v2
Start a new thread in the Kitchen Knife sub-forum, paste that in and fill it out.
I can cut a tomato without much pressure with my Henckels and Wusthof knives after sharpening. I am almost back into stropping as I broke my leather belt running it on high speed. I have new leather belts, but I am oiling them first before I use them. I am thinking they may work better and not break. I have leather oil. It takes about a week for the oil to absorb across the leather belt. I just applied my second coat. My knife does need a little push or pull, maybe a quarter inch to start the cut through the tomato skin. It won't bump and cut.
I am using a Worksharp Ken Onion sharpener. It uses belts.
I am using a Worksharp Ken Onion sharpener. It uses belts.
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Cheers, will give it a shot.
Quick question... which of these knives is better in terms of sharpness, edge retention, ease of sharpening:
Tojiro DP3 3-Layers Utility Knife 150mm
Wusthof Classic Ikon Black Utility Knife 12cm
I have a Wusthof and Forschner from before I started buying Japanese knives, and I was able to sharpen them to cut tomatoes easily. I used a DMT 8 " duo sharp bench sharpener with the fine (red - 600 grit) plate. I quickly grew frustrated with other methods, so decided to go nuclear. About a dozen or so strokes on either side would put an edge on them for general kitchen use, assuming they weren't dull-dull. Nothing like a skillfully sharpened carbon knife, of course, but good enough.
When you use the weight of the knife only as pressure, how many back and forth slicing motions/strokes does it take to penetrate through the tomato skin?
I managed to get a cheap stainless steel utility knife in under 3 strokes when I reverted back to an 400-800 grit Arkansas soft white stone. Not sure if that is sharp enough though.
Whereas before using the 1000 grit whetstone and Arkansas black, I could go on for 20 or so strokes and it still would not cut through the skin.
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Makes me wonder how they got the Wusthof so sharp in that video above... or how the 10,000+ grit stones on the harder carbon knives would perform on a tomato or mango skin since some of the teeth may be smoothed out slightly in the process of polishing
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Dunno, but probably not. I can't get these knives close to the sharpness of a Japanese style knife, so I don't use them very often and certainly not for these type of tasks. It does make me wonder whether in the video you posted, we are seeing the result of a wire edge.
Western stainless is a pain to deburr and doesn't get nearly as sharp even if you do fully deburr. It is coarse-grained and won't hold a high polish. Indeed, you are just as likely to muck up the edge with a high polish. The one exception that I have found is that a Belgian Blue Whetstone does seem to help deburr Western stainless so I sometimes use a coarse stone followed by deburring on a BBW.
Of the 2 knives that you asked about, I suspect that the Tojiro will get sharper as it is finer grained. However note that VG10 is notoriously difficult to fully deburr. There are much better options if you seek a steel that is easy to sharpen.
When I scrubbed my cheap knife with a green scourer sponge after sharpening with a White Arkansas, it wouldn't cut through the tomato skin anymore. I figured I must have altered the burr with the scourer.
No back and forth just one or the other.
I gave up on stones a long time ago. I use the Worksharp Ken Onion belt sharpener. It is fast on Germen steel, much faster than stones. I can sharpen German steel as fast as you can sharpen carbon steel with stones. If we go from complete dull, then I will be faster.
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Sorry, I meant back and forth strokes as in sawing/cutting motion of knife on the tomato
Not sure what you mean. I can cut through a tomato using a push stroke or a pull stroke no sawing motion. I like the push stroke which is what I mainly use.
This works with both my Wusthof Classic and Henckel 4-star knives. The steel is very close in my way of thinking. I have not found a difference in my use.
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There shouldn't be any burr left when you're done sharpening. Most likely you just rounded the apex.
White Ark can mean different things including Soft, Hard and Translucent.
Get on YouTube. I would avoid a channel called Burrfection but to each their own. Japanese Knife Imports and Korin are good places to start that have good how-to videos.
Also, abuse the search function here on the forum. Tons of of people have passed through new-to-sharpening questions.
This does sound a bit like the behavour one would see from a wire edge.
FWIW, learning to properly deburr has been the most important skill in my sharpening progress.
If you are not sure if your sharp edge is a burr, rock the edge along a board firmly a few times (don'trotate the knife while doing this or you may chip the edge, especiallywith the thin, hard, brittler steel we see in Japanese knives). If your edge is less sharp, you have just crushed your wire edge. A well deburred apex should hold up well to this.
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martchap
Well-Known Member
Yeh—those dang tomatoes. The skin seems to laugh at a really sharp polished knife edge, so (like others here) I use a lower-grit stone (1000 or less), and skip any stroping or polishing. As a side note: a fresh, super-sharp edge is wonderful, but starts to be less-than-best rather quickly, settling into a condition of nice-and-sharp for everyday use. Achieving 'only' a slightly toothy 'tomato slicer' edge is a good place to be.
