juuma stones?
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inferno
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well well well.
so i have now used these for a few hours and i will try to sum up how they work.
i used my trusty stainless fiskars @ 52-53 hrc as test medium.
first and foremost these are soakers. quite thick stones at over 30mm.
very hard, i think they are sintered stones with no binder at all. i have also tried the zische missarkas that are also sintered (think a porous spyderco), and those had absolutely no feel at all, they got the job done but wow how boring it can be to sharpen.
the juumas however felt quite nice and creamy, they actually feel really good. not slippery, and not grabby, just the right resistance imo.
they were very hard to flatten on my diaflat! almost nothing happens. they came quite flat, but not completely flat. the feeling of the surface was not changed after flattening. i'm gonna do them fully on the glass plate with SiC since its so much faster.
they dont release any abrasive at all. and wear should be minimal. feels very hard. i did them back to back with the shapton pros 1k and 2k.
and basically these are soaker pros, thats the feeling i get from them, but these will wear slower.
the 800 felt like it was about the same speed as the pro 1k. it left a bright scratch pattern on the SS, a tad finer than the pro 1k.
the 1200 felt almost the same speed but it left a finer darker gray pattern (probably better for kasumi contrast, which i have not tried yet).
the 2k felt about as fast as the 2k pro and it left a finer pattern than the pro (maybe 3k-ish), also brighter pattern than the pro. i liked the finish better than the 2k pro.
the stones are almost impossible to clean. but it doesn't seem to matter, they keep on cutting.
with the naniwa pro nagura = nothing happens, rust eraser = nothing happens. they just pulverize whatever you use to clean them
next i will try the stones on a carbon/iron blade to see if they are good for kasumi.
so i have now used these for a few hours and i will try to sum up how they work.
i used my trusty stainless fiskars @ 52-53 hrc as test medium.
first and foremost these are soakers. quite thick stones at over 30mm.
very hard, i think they are sintered stones with no binder at all. i have also tried the zische missarkas that are also sintered (think a porous spyderco), and those had absolutely no feel at all, they got the job done but wow how boring it can be to sharpen.
the juumas however felt quite nice and creamy, they actually feel really good. not slippery, and not grabby, just the right resistance imo.
they were very hard to flatten on my diaflat! almost nothing happens. they came quite flat, but not completely flat. the feeling of the surface was not changed after flattening. i'm gonna do them fully on the glass plate with SiC since its so much faster.
they dont release any abrasive at all. and wear should be minimal. feels very hard. i did them back to back with the shapton pros 1k and 2k.
and basically these are soaker pros, thats the feeling i get from them, but these will wear slower.
the 800 felt like it was about the same speed as the pro 1k. it left a bright scratch pattern on the SS, a tad finer than the pro 1k.
the 1200 felt almost the same speed but it left a finer darker gray pattern (probably better for kasumi contrast, which i have not tried yet).
the 2k felt about as fast as the 2k pro and it left a finer pattern than the pro (maybe 3k-ish), also brighter pattern than the pro. i liked the finish better than the 2k pro.
the stones are almost impossible to clean. but it doesn't seem to matter, they keep on cutting.
with the naniwa pro nagura = nothing happens, rust eraser = nothing happens. they just pulverize whatever you use to clean them
next i will try the stones on a carbon/iron blade to see if they are good for kasumi.
Those are huge for their behaviour. Quite strange.
KingShapton
Senior Member
Can you make a comparison with the sharpness achieved between Juuma 1200 and Shapton Pro 1000, as well as between Juuma 2000 and Shapton Pro 2000?
The Shapton Pro 2000 makes an aggressive edge with bite, so I would be interested in whether the Juuma 2000 also produces an edge with bite.
The Shapton Pro 2000 makes an aggressive edge with bite, so I would be interested in whether the Juuma 2000 also produces an edge with bite.
ModRQC
Just shutup n' grabbit!
Kawa
Senior Member
The stones do appeal nice to me. Also, you get a lot of stone for the money. These are old chosera thicknesses...
One thing confuses me: you call them soakers, the site (fine-tools) says they are splash&go?
I'm interessted in reading more about your experience with this stones! Definitely a topic I will follow
One thing confuses me: you call them soakers, the site (fine-tools) says they are splash&go?
I'm interessted in reading more about your experience with this stones! Definitely a topic I will follow
Says to put them in water shortly before usage. My guess is that they need to saturate a bit.
inferno
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splash and go = water pools on top mostly, stones dries fully in about 5 minutes to a few hours. basically you can put it away quickly.
soaker = stones sucks up all water like a sponge and takes about a week to dry out completely. you cannot put it away quickly or mold will start growing.
Kawa
Senior Member
I mean, what are the Juuma's?
The site calls them S&G (in their own words) and if I read it correctly, you find them soakers
The site calls them S&G (in their own words) and if I read it correctly, you find them soakers
The stones must be stored in a dry place and placed in water just a couple of minutes before they are put to work.
This is from the site.
This is from the site.
Kawa
Senior Member
And this is from TS
Both saying put them in water.
inferno
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110% soakers. there is nothing s&g about them at all.
inferno
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tested the stones on edges both after SiC 120 and then after my worn diaflat 160. the pros only after the dmt.
both the 800 and the 1200 are coarser and faster than the 1k after 120grit SiC (but not by much). and they are both slightly finer after the dmt plate.
the 2k i didn't test with SiC powder, only with the dmt and it is finer, but not by much 500-1k at most probably around 500 i'd say. it feels very similar when sharpening. slightly better/higher polish on the edge vs the pro. i think it feels about as agressive as the pro.
when flattening bevels the results look different, i took some pics of it. i just have to figure out whats what before i can post them.
even the 800 creates a very fine and shiny finish.
inferno
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kingshapton. if you like the pros you will probably like these. these feel better. sometimes the pros can feel a bit sticky yet a bit slimy and slippery.
these ones have none of that. just a good even resistance.
these ones have none of that. just a good even resistance.
Kawa
Senior Member
I guess that's my bad then.
I put all my stones in water 'for a few minutes before start'.
I do that with my s&g stones, not soaking for an hour, just 10-20 minutes. Untill no more air bubbles rise.
Next to that in this very topic I just got explained that a soaker difference (next to soaking up water..) vs. s&g is the drying time.
Some even keep their stones in the water forever! The Juuma site says 'store them dry', which also made not think of it being a soaker.
For me 'Put them in water a few minutes before start, but store them dry' is exactly how I handle my s&g stones... Think thats the confusion.
You might be looking at it like all being black and white.
There's a lot of grey area.
Some stones, when never used before, take a bit of water (sometimes way more than expected). Some need some water in various degrees, like having them a bit under running water or in water for a few minutes.
On the opposite end, a true soaking stone would be one that performs as designated only after many hours.
Even the drying time is not like just minutes or weeks. There's a lot of in between. My guess is that these will dry quite fast, based on how they are made and from years of experience with Sigma.
If bubbles are present for 15-20 minutes, you might not own any S&G stones. That's way too long.
There's a lot of grey area.
Some stones, when never used before, take a bit of water (sometimes way more than expected). Some need some water in various degrees, like having them a bit under running water or in water for a few minutes.
On the opposite end, a true soaking stone would be one that performs as designated only after many hours.
Even the drying time is not like just minutes or weeks. There's a lot of in between. My guess is that these will dry quite fast, based on how they are made and from years of experience with Sigma.
If bubbles are present for 15-20 minutes, you might not own any S&G stones. That's way too long.
inferno
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kayman is right. its not simply x or y its a question of "how much" x or y is it.
for me: if a stone will soak up water like a sponge for several minutes then its obviously a soaker.
if water basically just pools on top then its s&g.
however some "splash and go" stones will not dry very quickly. choseras for instance. they take about 1-2 days to dry completely. while shaptons can take from maybe 5 minutes to 2h. so there are different levels here.
i dont mind giving the stones a bath but i dont really like drying them for a week.
the juumas seemed to get saturated with water quite quickly, 1-2 minutes, but drying them seems to take a few days at least.
for me: if a stone will soak up water like a sponge for several minutes then its obviously a soaker.
if water basically just pools on top then its s&g.
however some "splash and go" stones will not dry very quickly. choseras for instance. they take about 1-2 days to dry completely. while shaptons can take from maybe 5 minutes to 2h. so there are different levels here.
i dont mind giving the stones a bath but i dont really like drying them for a week.
the juumas seemed to get saturated with water quite quickly, 1-2 minutes, but drying them seems to take a few days at least.
Quite a long time for such hard stones.
inferno
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if you read on the stone makers sites and retailer sites you will almost never find out if the stones are soakers or s&g, and almost everybody says "soak for a few minutes" no matter what. total confusion. you basically have to try them yourself to find out.
inferno
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they seem to be porous but tightly packed. it is impossible to clean them for instance, as opposed to a shapton. this indicates very fine porosity to me.
I'll try to put a bigger order together and add one of these as well.
inferno
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honestly i dont know if you will need both the 800 and the 1200. i feel they are very similar. i wanted to try both to see if there was any big difference with them. i think i like the 1200 slightly more than the 800 for some reason. it also has a nicer more vibrant color.
one thing i noticed was when i put the SiC 120 finish on them both, the 1200 seemed to get a slightly coarser surface. but they kinda abraded on a similar level anyway so.
one thing i noticed was when i put the SiC 120 finish on them both, the 1200 seemed to get a slightly coarser surface. but they kinda abraded on a similar level anyway so.
I'm really inclined towards the most abrasive one.
inferno
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some pics of the scratch patterns. these were the best ones imo. and all of them are from when the stones was flattened on a worn diaflat.
pro1k, juuma800, juuma1200, pro2k, juuma2k. only the bevel is the tested stones, the flat is one of my 12k's, but after i ran a rust eraser on it. because it kinda started rusting
pro1k, juuma800, juuma1200, pro2k, juuma2k. only the bevel is the tested stones, the flat is one of my 12k's, but after i ran a rust eraser on it. because it kinda started rusting
inferno
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the 1200 performed better for me off the d-plate. in milligrams at least. if you gonna maintain it on SiC then the 800 wins. but not by much.
Kawa
Senior Member
Do they hold the coarseness you give them with the plate or SiC for a long time?
Hard to kinda answer that objectivly i guess...
You are saying you do 300 passes. About when would you say the stones are becoming slicker? Or do they keep close to the coarseness you give them at start?
For example, I notice my Naniwa pro 400 is 'close to original coarseness' after 60 SiC, but it only holds for a few minutes. If I start a knife on it, I'm close to 800 gritt (estimated) after about 10 minutes on the stone. Flattening stone (220gritt) makes the pro400 even smoother, and I am too lazy to do a SiC threatment on a stone while still using it...
I sharpen in my living room, but the messy SiC threatment will be done outside. Dont want the coarse abrasives in my sink.
Hard to kinda answer that objectivly i guess...
You are saying you do 300 passes. About when would you say the stones are becoming slicker? Or do they keep close to the coarseness you give them at start?
For example, I notice my Naniwa pro 400 is 'close to original coarseness' after 60 SiC, but it only holds for a few minutes. If I start a knife on it, I'm close to 800 gritt (estimated) after about 10 minutes on the stone. Flattening stone (220gritt) makes the pro400 even smoother, and I am too lazy to do a SiC threatment on a stone while still using it...
I sharpen in my living room, but the messy SiC threatment will be done outside. Dont want the coarse abrasives in my sink.
I just ordered a 60 grit diamond pad. I hope it's good enough to change the surface and keep going for a while.
