Kato geometry

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Hello Marko, Are you meeting with Hiroshi Kato from Echizen, Japan or Kiyoshi Kato of Yoshiaki Fujiwara who makes the Kato Workhorse sold by JNS? The one purchase I made a few years ago was the Kato Workhorse by Kiyoshi Kato. There is a distinct difference between these two masters.
 
@parbaked - this thread is about the Kato Workhorse from JNS (Kiyoshi Kato). So if Marko was going to be meeting with Kato I was just wondering which master he was going to be meeting with? I was told that Kiyoski Kato was tending to his aging mother lately. I could be wrong so, I just asked who he was meeting with.
 
I am not sure, I think I will meet one of Kato masters. If they are related, I am pretty sure that the process of grinding is the same, if not, then I ask the other Kato how he grinds his knives))
 
If he is the maker of the "workhorse Kato" I will definitely tell him about this threat.. )) I think he will be pretty amused.
 
I am not sure, I think I will meet one of Kato masters. If they are related, I am pretty sure that the process of grinding is the same, if not, then I ask the other Kato how he grinds his knives))
Where are you meeting him? if it's anywhere but Sanjo Hokuto I think it's very likely not the Kato this thread is about.
 
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Where are you meeting him? if it's anywhere but Sanjo I think it's very likely not the Kato this thread is about.
Isn't Kiyoshi Kato in Hokuto? That's quite a ways off from Sanjo.
 
The two kato knifemakers are not related as far as I know... relatively common name in Japan, but the one from takefu does not share much in common with the one being talked about here (good knives nonetheless and a very nice guy)
 
It will be difficult for me to reply in any depth due to my position in this forum, but I will try.

Yes, it was meant positively. His geometry/grind is absolutely based off of his sword making experience. I only know one other maker who is using similar concepts and education/experience, though he is applying them a bit differently.

It's also not a 'v' grind at all. The curvature in the sides of the blade is called 'niku', and how the blade cuts is absolutely a function of it. Even completely dull that blade will still cut better than many (if not most) sharpened knives. With an edge it's something else entirely. A good maker will often check his blades by cutting food before putting an edge on them for that very reason. If it won't cut cleanly before sharpening (and by 'cleanly' I don't mean drop through a tomato, though with a proper grind on it before sharpening it may actually do that), then the edge is just a band-aid/crutch for an inferior knife.

As for maintainability, you're right in some ways. Thinning should be performed in a different manner than you would on a typical 'v' grind knife as you put it. More of a blending than a true thinning, and starting higher on the blade. Most guys in the kitchen knife world think of everything in terms of flat angles. Sharpening/thinning is strictly a matter of scrubbing away on a stone while holding the spine of the knife at a precise distance from the stone. Thinning this is a bit different, but everything in this world is a compromise. That's one I think is well worth it.

One last thing. If you want to check the grind on a blade, hold it horizontal in a dim room, pointed towards a set of blinds or other horizontal light source. With a sword you can do so like this:

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With a kitchen knife, it's likely too thin (yes, even a Kato lol) to do it like that, so you would do it as I explained above:

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You can learn the same amount about a sword by doing the same thing. If you tip it up and down in the light, you can see the reflection of the blinds change along the blade, showing you how the grind changes.

Hopefully that helps fill in some blanks.
Cool tip on how to see the grind. Thanks Cris
 
Well, I am hereby to report that Kato I met this past weekend was indeed the other Kato, not one discussed here.

However, I was able to take a good look at the Kato gyuto (one discussed here) and so here are some quick thoughts on geometry. When people look at Kato knives they start with a heel, which is pretty impressively thick. I wonder if people have noticed that from half way onto the tip, Kato knives resemble most Japanese workhorses, that are symmetrically ground? The secret of Kato performance lies in the cross-section. Beautiful grind and forging.
 
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Just wondering for other Kato 240 standard owners what’s the weight of your 240 knife? Assuming it’s stock and not thinned could post the thinned weight too or custom handles could make a large difference too. Do they tend to average around 230g stock and run short? Do the standard tend to have thicker spines compared to the wh and shorter heels too?
 
Kato STD 240. Run short, mostly around 230mmm and almost exactly 50mm at the heel (taking into account 3 of them). Weight varies, the current one I have is 235g, one was almost 250g, the other one was a bit lighter but I don't have a record.

Kato WH (have had 2) both almost 250mm long but the weight difference is a whooping more than 20g with the heavier (older) one at 256g.
 
I have a 240 WH and 240 STD Blue 2. Mine have differences in weight and length. My 240 WH from JNS is 236 grams, 53mm heel, 245mm blade, 406mm OAL. My 240 STD Blue 2 is 226 grams, 51mm, 233mm, 397mm. Surprisingly, the Blue 2 STD is only 10 grams lighter but 12mm shorter and 2mm less at the heel. I'm still trying to get my hands on a 240 KU and 240 dammy.
 
Measurements of my 240std. 234ish length x 50. 230g on the dot with about 6mm thick coming out of the handle. BNIB so not thinned or modifies at all.

210 WH is 215 x 49. 190g with 5mm at spine out of the handle and about 4mm over the heel.

I do find the D handle on mine feels significantly larger than my 210WH D handle not sure if that’s just because it’s a 240 vs 210.
 
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