Michele Massaro Knives, An Italian Blacksmith

[pozz85]

Hi folks

I follow this forum for long time, but i never start a thread about an italian blacksmith, i want to bring your attention on Michele Massaro knife's
his work is excellent, and no, i don't have one of his knife, it's so difficult to have only one of this beauty, Michele work ONLY by commission, and his knifes don't go on other sales channels.

He work in Maniago (Friuli Venezia Giulia, Italy) hisotric city for knifes, closely with michelin star italian chef's (Fulvio Pierangelini, Enrico Crippa, Mauro Colagreco, etc..)

It's not a advertisement, but only introduce you about his masterpieces, he use very low HRC values.

"The tools used to work are still used now, they are very fascinating… every tool that I use has a history of centuries, in a dialect name. Whenever a job requires it, for centuries it forges a new pincer, a new “forge steel plug” and then that is placed beside that of their ancestors. On the oor, near the mallet1, under the anvil, you can be found dozen of “plugs” which seem unimportant pieces of iron. In e ect those pieces are secular and even today I use them for drilling the white-hot steel.
Each tool has a speci c purpose a certain moment when they can be used. Only those who use them know how to search between the slag and dust the plugs required to make the hole for that particular tool."


I hope I’ve introduced you about this italian master and bring your attention.

some footage:

.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Michele work ONLY by commission, and his knifes don't go on other sales channels.

Ahh the Chelsea Miller marketing strategy.
I'd be curious to know how a "very low HRC" is advantageous. The ones I've used in the past before discovering JKnives eg Sabs and German steel blades, were very unsatisfying and underwhelming.

 

[pozz85]

Ahh the Chelsea Miller marketing strategy.
I'd be curious to know how a "very low HRC" is advantageous. The ones I've used in the past before discovering JKnives eg Sabs and German steel blades, were very unsatisfying

From my research around 53/55 HRC

 

[ptolemy]

We should do a pass around here

 

[pozz85]

We should do a pass around here

Yeah! He work on ancient forge “Lenarduzzi” since 1400

 

[Ruso]

He must be old, and I mean real old! O-o

 

[pozz85]

He must be old, and I mean real old! O-o

Michele i think have 45/50 yo
The forge is historic, around 1400

 

[milkbaby]

He seems to have a distinctive style of his own based on his knife design. The neck between the blade and handle is very narrow but are they thinking that area of high stress?

From the patterns on the blades, it looks like he uses a hydraulic press to forge out his steel? Interesting choice in contrast to using an ancient forge. Also interesting choice to use very soft steel, does he give a reason for this?

 

[XooMG]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure I'm not smart or qualified enough to appreciate the mastery.

 

[pozz85]

He seems to have a distinctive style of his own based on his knife design. The neck between the blade and handle is very narrow but are they thinking that area of high stress?

From the patterns on the blades, it looks like he uses a hydraulic press to forge out his steel? Interesting choice in contrast to using an ancient forge. Also interesting choice to use very soft steel, does he give a reason for this?

because michele said prefer study the different type of iron and forging, rather only the hardness, i think it's a secret...i see different vids and don't speak about how iron he use.

 

[pozz85]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure I'm not smart or qualified enough to appreciate the mastery.

probably me too ahahaha, but i want one of his knife

 

[pozz85]

Some more footage:

this for Yoji Tokuyoshi michelin star chef, the historical sous chef of Massimo Bottura on Osteria Francescana

This line for chef: Mauro Colagreco

Enrico Crippa line:

 

[valdim]

Enrico Crippa line:

This one has a very slick, nice design...

The neck between the blade and handle is very narrow but are they thinking that area of high stress?

+1 as a note and question (ref. the other models of knives with a finger rest)

 

[pozz85]

maybe TF owners we can help us.. ehehe

 

[Nagakin]

If I had to guess, it's to force your pinch grip back and make you use the handle. It looks more to me like a notch for your index finger than middle.

I assume this because if you've ever gripped your gyuto halfway up the blade for petty uses, you know the hand cramp that follows.

It's because your back fingers aren't supporting the weight of the knife anymore. Blade heavy grip here would probably feel the same because your middle finger would be floating.

These knives look on the shorter side, so this would both keep the balance blade heavy and make it feel like you had an extra 1-2cm cutting length. Pretty smart.

Someone will have to explain the advantage of such soft steel though.

 

[pozz85]

Someone will have to explain the advantage of such soft steel though.

copy and translate this Michele Massaro post about hrc, explain his theory:

"
steel is an alloy of iron plus carbon, the variation of the percentage of carbon makes the steel harder and therefore fragile, increasing the percentage of carbon steel changes characteristics and therefore name: cast iron.
combining with another element of the table that you should have studied in school generates oxide (it combines with oxygen).
to avoid the formation of oxide other elements are added, for example chromium which by passivating prevents the formation of rust ... (stainless steel)
if, however, we add chromium to iron and carbon, steel no longer cuts like the grandfather's opinel or grafting knife ... and the knives are used to cut ...
another steel known since ancient times is damascus another hoax or ca .... commercial ... damascus was born for other absurd purposes in cutlery ... such as the manufacture of wonderful English rifle barrels (particularly elastic and resistant to pressure) ... used by knife makers who don't study and by European and Japanese industries looking for tawny….
let's move on to hardness, a knife is harder the more it holds the wire but when does it lose? what do we do? who sharpens it? in industry harden steels such as k110-D2 with hardness of 62 hcr to bring it with the second tempering to a hardness of 59 hcr (if the knife sellers do not know these details they better sell bananas), these hardnesses are necessary to cut with other steel shearing blades. so if you think you make a knife to cut a fish with such wrong characteristics craftsman…. the knife shops are harder than the slicer blades and also in stainless steel or damascus
that I don't use and don't forge…
sharpening
I have a workshop I do not use the stone if not rarely at home."

 

[valdim]

Hm....typically italian (and also typically south-european, incl. bulgarian...)...a lot of words.
Tbh, particulalry here, I understood a little.

 

[pozz85]

Hm....typically italian (and also typically south-european, incl. bulgarian...)...a lot of words.
Tbh, particulalry here, I understood a little.

maybe...ahaha
But i think you understand the concept

 

[Qapla']

and no, i don't have one of his knife, it's so difficult to have only one of this beauty

So what sort of knife would you want to buy from him? Any among the ones you posted, or yet something different?

 

[Nagakin]

If I'm understanding correctly, he chooses to keep his steel as simple as possible for the best feel while cutting, because his knives only need to cut food? I can respect that. Including the history of the forge, it's probably a religious experience using one. I'd definitely like to try.

Still leaves questions open about performance for me though, but I'm not the target audience. Seems like a knife a Michelin star chef would use, but not so much his employees.

 

[pozz85]

So what sort of knife would you want to buy from him? Any among the ones you posted, or yet something different?

Probably one of his Gyuto, i like very much the Tukuyoshi line, but it’s personally of this chef and don’t replicate for other customer, i think want one about my spec.
270mm and very thin behind edge

 

[pozz85]

If I'm understanding correctly, he chooses to keep his steel as simple as possible for the best feel while cutting, because his knives only need to cut food? I can respect that. Including the history of the forge, it's probably a religious experience using one. I'd definitely like to try.

yes correct, you understand the philosphy about this knife's

Still leaves questions open about performance for me though, but I'm not the target audience. Seems like a knife a Michelin star chef would use, but not so much his employees.

unfortunately I've never tried it his knifes, but i'm so curious...

 

[soigne_west]

How much do they cost?

 

[lemeneid]

If I recall, Massimo Bottura has a Chelsea Miller knife. Its no different from an aspiring guitarist filming himself and sending out some samples to recording studios hoping they get picked up. A knifemaker here could also make and send out their knives to a famous chef and post it on their website or Instagram and say, hey *insert famous chef name* just got my knife! Its marketing, I wouldn't put that much weight into their skills based on that.

 

[pozz85]

How much do they cost?

I don’t know...
I try to contact Michele for more details about waiting list, now it’s one year.....

 

[pozz85]

If I recall, Massimo Bottura has a Chelsea Miller knife. Its no different from an aspiring guitarist filming himself and sending out some samples to recording studios hoping they get picked up. A knifemaker here could also make and send out their knives to a famous chef and post it on their website or Instagram and say, hey *insert famous chef name* just got my knife! Its marketing, I wouldn't put that much weight into their skills based on that.

Wait...here is different.
sure it’s ALSO marketing...
Maniago it seems like Sanjo or Echizen or etc
Obv Maniago it’s so small 900 people
But in this individual case we have ancient forging and a lot of history

 

[milkbaby]

I (and probably most other knifemakers and users here) will disagree with the use of steel at low hardness for culinary knives. It may be useful if using an old chef's steel/honing rod often, but you'll find that most people here prefer the longer lasting edge that steel treated to higher hardness will have. Even at high hardness, one can easy use a ceramic or diamond rod just as quickly and easily as the traditional chef's steel. There's not much advantage IMHO other than being able to sell you another knife because you wore out the softer knife quickly...

 

[valdim]

How much do they cost?

Good question.
I looked at the smith's web site and I see his marketing strategy is to collaborate/communicate with chefs and a Japanese-named blacksmith and present different lines collaborated with these professionals. I guess this is a marketing strategy.

If I recall, Massimo Bottura has a Chelsea Miller knife. Its no different from an aspiring guitarist filming himself and sending out some samples to recording studios hoping they get picked up. A knifemaker here could also make and send out their knives to a famous chef and post it on their website or Instagram and say, hey *insert famous chef name* just got my knife! Its marketing, I wouldn't put that much weight into their skills based on that.

+1 lemenaid is straight, which I like.

 

[Nagakin]

I choose to look at makers like this as taking the extreme side of "functional art". Performance isn't every maker's goal, so as long as it's not marketed as better for that reason I have no problem with it.

 

[Donald Roe]

10/10 would not buy if it’s that soft