Naniwa Professional 3k vs Shapton 5k

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donegoofed

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I'm considering replacing my Shapton 5k with a Naniwa Pro 3k. I don't like neither sharpening on the 5k and the results I get from it. My knives is missing some bite when cutting tomatoes, chilis, bell peppers etc.

My current knife collection is mostly carbon (white 1 and blue 2).
Stone progression is Shapton 320, 1k and 5k.

I prefer to buy locally (skarpekniver.com), and the options are quite limited. The Pro 3k is for me the most obvious option for a replacement, but I'm always open for other suggestions as well.
 
The Naniwa Pro 3K, adjusted for grit rating, does not have a lot of bite compared to other stones in its grit rating.

I looked at the link you posted. The Naniwas Aotoishi 2K will provide more bite and a keener edge.

Another thing you can try is a Hybrid edge. Basically sharpen as normal on your 1K, then strop on your 5K, not enough to get a 5K edge but enough to keen up the 1K edge. Will have tons of bite.

Another amazing edge that would work for you can be had of the Shapton 2K ( If you can get one where you are ) stropped on the soft side of leather with 3 micron diamonds.
 
I love the bite-y edges I get off a 3K followed by stropping on 1u. I use a Shapton Glass 3K + Shapton Pro 12K or Naniwa 3K diamond + 1u diamonds on leather to get there. I just got the diamond setup, but it may be just a bit better than the Shaptons
 
IMO the Naniwa/new Chosera professional stones are amazing, I really like the, but they're very expensive for just edge sharpening.

Of the choices I see on that site, yes that would probably still be the stone I bought though (I mean I really like mine). But are you sure you cant source a Shapton Pro 2k? Way cheaper, great feeling stone, aggressive edges.

If you want to polish too, though, yeah A+ stone IMO
 
Agree with @Benuser for the option of Naniwa 2000 if you prefer more bite.
Alternatively, if you can acquire them locally, the Morihei 4000 is a good option too imo, I found the bite it gives is better than Naniwa 3K.
I have the Pro 2, 3K and Morihei 4K, and I prefer Morihei 4K for edge sharpening the most, pleasant feedback, and quite soft, bit thirsty tho.
 
+1 to Shapton pro 2k, tons of bite.
 
Hmmm.

From what I read, OP wants jussst some more bite then sp5k to cut tomatoes/peppers on his white and blue steel.
You really suggest a shapton pro 2k or something that coarse for that goal?
Nothing personal, just an example. I see some stones being mentioned that are medium coarse, ofcoarse they have bite. I have the feeling OP is not looking for 'just a lot of bite'

He's not asking for tons/lots of bite to saw some wood, right?
 
Mr.Wizard said:
Are you calling out the Shapton specifically or anything around "2k" generally? Todd of scienceofsharp.com showed that the Glass Stone 8K has a strange composition with huge particles (100 micron) so I wonder of that's the issue? A properly graded ~6.7 micron stone should be able to produce a fairly refined edge, not a saw even figuratively.
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I mean anything around 2k generally, meaning a finish around 2000 gritt. So, if you suggest a stone which is named 'blabla 2k', but the finish is more towards 4000 gritt compared to other brands, im not meaning that stone 😅

Im just saying that if the shapton pro 5000 doesnt give you the bite you want for tomatoes, you dont have to drop al the way back to 2000 grittish range to have enough bite for tomatoes.
Especially blue and white steel can handle higher gritts than that and still have lots of bite.
 
I agree. I often finish a Hiromoto AS gyuto with a Naniwa Super Stone 5000, known more for polish than tooth I believe, and it doesn't seem to have any problem with field ripe tomatoes.

On the other hand I don't think JIS #2000 is "medium coarse"—isn't a King #1000 the classic "medium" stone?
 
coarse, medium, fine. It's all subjective and depends on context.

Just as, 'lots of bite'
One may find an edge slick, and the other likes it for the bite
 
Kawa said:
I mean anything around 2k generally, meaning a finish around 2000 gritt. So, if you suggest a stone which is named 'blabla 2k', but the finish is more towards 4000 gritt compared to other brands, im not meaning that stone 😅

Im just saying that if the shapton pro 5000 doesnt give you the bite you want for tomatoes, you dont have to drop al the way back to 2000 grittish range to have enough bite for tomatoes.
Especially blue and white steel can handle higher gritts than that and still have lots of bite.
Click to expand...

in the case I suggested a shapton pro 2k, my logic is that if instead of doing a full progression you instead are using the 5k stone to deburr and do some light stropping, it's going to end up closer to what you want than starting with a 1k.

there's lots of ways to get slightly less bite than a 5k normally, you could also strop with 4k grit diamond paste.

I just dont feel like a naniwa pro 3k stone is worth the asking price if you're only going to do edges on it. it's like twice the price.
 
There are different ways to get a fine but toothy edge. It depends on how you organise your progression. You may skip some steps and make large jumps. You may reduce the time on intermediate stones. You may come back to the penultimate stone. Anyway, I prefer, in general, a simple progression with the least possible stones involved. Less means, less errors. A Naniwa Pro 2k offers a JIS-3k end result but starts quite aggressively. For comparison: a Shapton Pro 2k doesn't offer a much finer end result than an Naniwa Pro 800 if looking at the scratch pattern, but is easier for deburring.
The Naniwa Pro 2k can very easily deal with the scratch pattern of a Shapton Glass 320 as I just verified. No reasons to believe it is very different with the Shapton Pro 320.
 
With the steels you listed (Shirogami #1 & Aogami #2), I find synths generally produce lackluster results.

Both respond really well to what razor users would call 'Pre-Finisher' naturals (Belgian Blue's, Lv. 2.5-3.5 J-Nats, Hard Arks, etc.)... Low-grit synth edges don't last as well on these steels due to oxidation degradation, and high-grit edges lose teeth quickly due to their carbide structure. There's this narrow band of mixed-grit, that's fairly high in the grit range, that works awesomely in terms of retention and bite.

You also have to take these steels a bit thinner BTE... I've been starting to convex-zero steels in this alloy/hardness range, with good results... The thinner you take them, the more perceived 'bite' they seem to get on a given stone. Higher alloys sometimes need 0.007-0.010"+ BTE to stabilize, but these can be surprisingly stable at less, depending upon the maker's HT, and how hard your usage is.

Hope this helps.
 
Steampunk said:
:cool:
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I’m not sure if I want to dive into naturals. Seems like a slippery slope, and another rabbit hole.. Buuut I’m curious. Any recommendations from JNS for a starter natural or two, that would fit nicely into my progression?

And I’m already doing a zero edge. At least on my Mazaki. I think what I’m doing is called a hamaguri edge? I finish of with a microbevel.
 
Thanks for all the recommendations and insight from all the usuals. Much appreciated, as always!

Quick update: bought the 3k from @Garm and ordered an Aiiwatani from Maksim. Aaand a new cutting board + new knife…
Can someone please take my cards away from me?
 
donegoofed said:
Thanks for all the recommendations and insight from all the usuals. Much appreciated, as always!

Quick update: bought the 3k from @Garm and ordered an Aiiwatani from Maksim. Aaand a new cutting board + new knife…
Can someone please take my cards away from me?
Click to expand...

Keep going the way you're going, and someone is going to take them away. :D
 
gaijin said:
Do you end on that stone or what do you do after? And on what knives?
Click to expand...

I usually end with Naniwa 3k on steels like Shirogami/Aogami. I put more efford on HAP 40 and maybe Aogami Super, like Suita (Okudo).

SirCutALot
 
I generally end on Chosera 3K (same as NP 3K) followed by stropping with most good steels. I have higher grit stones, but don't notice better edges, better retention or better performance with them.

Steels include Shiro 1, Ao 2, Ao Super, Spicy Swedish, Ginsan 3, AEB-L, ZDP189, R2/SG2, CS, VG10. Works a treat on all of them.
 
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