Toyama AND Watanabe Gyuto—Redundant?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
474
Reaction score
943
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I have a Toyama 210 gyuto (awesome), I found a 210 Wat gyuto and was thinking about getting it before the prices go up. My question is: is that redundant? I've read that the two makers gyutos are *strikingly* similar. Thanks for your opinions!
 

Cliff

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
365
Reaction score
325
I think when you get them and the weight matters as much or more than which one you get. I have an older Kurouchi Watanabe that is very different from a more recent, iron-clad Migaki Wat. That Migaki is quite similar in feel to my 270, stainless clad Toyama
 

Perzua

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
83
Reaction score
42
Location
Poland
Thanks! Yes, I plan on a 240 at some point. If I see either a Wat or Toyama come up I will grab one. Amazing knives. I'd say those and Yoshi SKD are my favorites at the moment.

Please write something more about Toyama vs Yoshi
 

Jville

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
2,096
Reaction score
2,018
Which one are you wanting the stainless Toyanabe or the Watayoma?
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
474
Reaction score
943
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Please write something more about Toyama vs Yoshi
Both amazing 210 gyutos but very different. The Yoshi is semi-stainless and less tall, with a loooong flat spot which I love (the flat spot, I wouldn't mind if it was a bit taller). Also has a lovely handle, at least at CKC. I paid a bit more to get it from there with the burned walnut.

The Toyama has the fairly ubiquitous JNS handle and (to my eye) a more traditional shape.

Both very comfortable, get crazy sharp easily, and cut like nobody's business. Toyama 150 and Wat 180 nakiri are the only other knives I have that fall through food as well as these two. And, surprisingly, a $145 masashi kobo santoku from Aframes is very close.
 

Cliff

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
365
Reaction score
325
Keep looking till you find an iron clad Wat. Game changer for a heavier knife.

They slimmed down before the shift to stainless clad -- some of the iron clads are just as svelte as the current stainless clad.
 

timebard

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
527
Reaction score
1,282
Location
Utah
Please write something more about Toyama vs Yoshi

@Greenbriel gave a good overview but one thing to note is that the grind is fairly different between the two. With mine at least, Yoshi is basically a high wide bevel that's flat enough to produce some stiction but is also very thin behind the edge--feels laserish but with more heft in the spine. Toyama is thin behind the edge but a convex grind, which cuts smoothly but also reduces stiction and wedging effects and feels less fragile. It also has a much thicker tip, which makes it more forward balanced and less good for fine work like mincing garlic and shallots.

Both really good knives, my Yoshi SKD 210 isn't going anywhere and I shouldn't have sold my Toyama 240.
 

Matus

Staff member
Global Moderators
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
9,613
Reaction score
3,015
Location
Germany
Since they are both made by Toyama, there is not going to be much difference past the knife-to-knife variations in thickness/weight (which can be considerable - my stainless clad Toyama nakiri weights 175g, but there have been some as heavy as 230g - just an example).
 

Cliff

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
365
Reaction score
325
Any idea of roughly when the thinning happened? And when was the switch to stainless?

My early 2019 240 Wat Migaki gyuto has the same specs as the current versions in stainless clad. I have an older Kurouchi 270 that is a beast. I really like the 240, but it is not as distinctive as the older one. I'm not sure exactly when they switched to stainless. If I'm not mistaken, it has happened before. The more recent shift must have been around 2021.
 

Loam

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
73
Reaction score
34
I sold back my Wat Gyuto because was very similar to my Toyama. So yes, I think you should invest your money on something else.
 

daveb

Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderators
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
13,855
Reaction score
6,851
Location
St Pete, the one in Florida
Toyama and watanabe are two of the best knives in this knife world that you can actually obtain whenever you want. The only knives that are decisively above these are the Tsukasa hinouras, the kiyoshi katos, the shigefusas, the konosuke kaiju, and the ashi honyakis.
Tru dat - when considering the carbon clad variants of Toyama and Wat. The 240+ stainless clad are good knives but not "magic".

Shigs and Kato are good for bragging rights but those that I've had live at someone else's house now. Yawn.
 

daniel_il

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Messages
437
Reaction score
1,084
Location
NYC,US
main concern for me is how brittle the steel, although can managed with micro bevel. actually prefer my watoyma over my kato std as a cutter. never owned shig tho
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
474
Reaction score
943
Location
Brooklyn, NY
main concern for me is how brittle the steel, although can managed with micro bevel. actually prefer my watoyma over my kato std as a cutter. never owned shig tho
I have a (quite reasonably priced!) Shig nakiri and it's a great cutter but very reactive. I've never microchipped any of my Watoyamas and I use them a lot.
 

blokey

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2021
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
1,727
Location
us
Just got a Watanabe SS from trading, pretty good so far, really want to try a iron clad.
 

Marcelo Amaral

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
1,662
Reaction score
178
I have two Toyamas 270mm: the stainless version weighs 253 grams and the ironclad, 250 grams. The ironclad's choil a bit thinner and spine a bit more tappered. The stainless with a thicker spine near the handle. Both cut very well.
 

timebard

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
527
Reaction score
1,282
Location
Utah
Been trying out my iron clad Wat 270 for the past week or so. I had a Toyama SS clad 240 in the past and it was quite a good cutter but this one is on another level. The zero edge does feel rather delicate but so far no noticable issues with microchipping, despite it regularly sticking into the board. I imagine I'll put a bit more conservative edge angle on it in the future but I really want to see how well the original one holds up.

It's not a perfect knife for me (too much curve in the profile, for one) but it is absolutely among the very best cutters I've tried.

PXL_20220522_010445487.jpg
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
781
Reaction score
2,499
Location
San Antonio
Toyama and watanabe are two of the best knives in this knife world that you can actually obtain whenever you want. The only knives that are decisively above these are the Tsukasa hinouras, the kiyoshi katos, the shigefusas, the konosuke kaiju, and the ashi honyakis.
I really liked my Toyama but I would put the latest batch of Migoto W1 240 ahead of it - could be just personal preference.
 
Top