some deep mud
D. Martell UPDATE - Please read if waiting for work from me - Part II
- Thread starter Dave Martell
- Start date
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That post was not in his defense. It basically outlines where he is at. What lead to this point is too late to prevent; it is more about how he can work out of it while eventually fulfilling his obligations to everyone.
WildBoar, you're right, it's not really about anyone, it's a business gone wrong. It's obvious the work won't get caught up, nor can refunds be made. If that was the case I'm pretty sure it would have happened. It's been said many times, there is no money and new work generating income is needed to survive. Most of us have been in a bad place in our lives at sometime, digging out can be painful and hard. My point, well suggestion based on personal experience, was to just cut the losses, let the beasts come after you whether legally, verbally, whatever, it will probably be relatively short lived. Continuing as is, it appears this had been going on almost two years, it will never stop until there are some finality statements. If people want to wait and hope for a couple more years, cool, but at least they know, so they may be pleasantly surprised in the end. For the ones that want to say "F" you and get it out of their system, good, let them get it out and move on. Then there will be peace, less stress at some point and all energy can be diverted to maintaining and moving forward with the business, not making the same mistakes again.
very well said.
i'm still baffled that people would even pre-pay for unspecified 'in the future' handle work. the whole coupon system is nuts to me, i mean look at where it's lead to..
This gets even better when a forum member decides to go to peoples' instagram feeds and start posting ****. What are you, 5 years old?
HRC_64
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This thread is well intentioned, but I almost wonder if it's just feeding these trolls.
That is sad, but like I said, until there is a clear line drawn in the sand the beasts will stalk their prey. Sure, they will still continue for a while after the line is drawn but eventually will realize that all they're doing is wasting their time. Until then they will feed on the drama, today everyone loves good drama as long as it's not pointed at them
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QUOTE: "I'm still baffled that people would even pre-pay for unspecified 'in the future' handle work."
I'm not. I see similar things happening all the time. More than 150,000 projects have been funded on Kickstarter. Some of those projects panned out and shipped usable products; others didn't. It's always funny to see Kickstarter investors with their panties in a knot when some venture fails. That's the nature of the beast. Nothing is guaranteed. And although ordering a custom knife or a re-handle should not be quite as risky, I believe that anyone who orders a product from a one-person artisan shop of any persuasion, has to do so with the understanding that the transaction carries some amount of risk (or else they are quite naive). Why did folks buy coupons? Several reasons: perhaps "getting a deal," perhaps wanting to help a forum member/maker raise funds. Dave is not the first craftsperson on this forum to run into a rough spot. At least he's still here and talking with us. Others left, never to be heard from. As to contacting the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office – give me a break. I used to ride a high horse until I got knocked off a few times. Now I mostly walk up to folks, look them in the eye and try to understand what's going on.
I'm not. I see similar things happening all the time. More than 150,000 projects have been funded on Kickstarter. Some of those projects panned out and shipped usable products; others didn't. It's always funny to see Kickstarter investors with their panties in a knot when some venture fails. That's the nature of the beast. Nothing is guaranteed. And although ordering a custom knife or a re-handle should not be quite as risky, I believe that anyone who orders a product from a one-person artisan shop of any persuasion, has to do so with the understanding that the transaction carries some amount of risk (or else they are quite naive). Why did folks buy coupons? Several reasons: perhaps "getting a deal," perhaps wanting to help a forum member/maker raise funds. Dave is not the first craftsperson on this forum to run into a rough spot. At least he's still here and talking with us. Others left, never to be heard from. As to contacting the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office – give me a break. I used to ride a high horse until I got knocked off a few times. Now I mostly walk up to folks, look them in the eye and try to understand what's going on.
Well, it's now past the deadline, and no refund from Dave. I'm not "riding a high horse", I'm a pissed-off consumer. I honestly believe Dave never intended to complete all the work he was selling coupons for. He needed money, he offered a coupon to get some quick money to pay his bills. I didn't know of or have any reason to ever reach out to Dave or his business, BUT based on his involvement and support of this forum, I trusted him and purchased these coupons. He will not update me with how big his list is, where in his list I am, or when I might realistically get my work completed. Several years since purchase, 18 months since getting my knife in his hands, and he "reserves the right to complete work at his discretion". Although he states my coupons are valid and will still be honored, he won't tell me when, or offer any reassurances it will be in the reasonable future.
I don't know Dave personally, didn't agree to give him a donation or charity support. He didn't disclose any medical issues or other problems on why the redemption of these coupons might have issues. He has bills like the rest of us, and I see no reason why anyone here is giving him special treatment. He chooses to not have a job, and chooses to have his own business. He posts pics of a workshop he paid for with OUR money. In the last year, he has posted over 91 photos of knives for sale with the MARTELL brandname that he built with OUR money, a brand he was able to develop and buy supplies for with OUR money. Seems to me he has plenty of time to build custom knives from scratch (including custom handles) in the hopes of selling for $, but no time to do simple handles he's already been paid for. THIS IS FRAUD. There is no other way to look at this. Dave took our money in the commercial interest of being self sufficient and running his own business and when he wasn't able to do that, he sold coupons to raise money. This practice is against the law. There is no excuse for it. "Supporting his family" is not an excuse for breaking the law, and we're only seeing a small snippet of Dave's business/practices here on the forum. Say what you want but you don't know about any of his other business dealings, interaction on other forums, of how many people he's sold coupons to or how much money he's taken in. He built a website for MARTELL KNIVES (domain registered as private, 12/9/17)
Moderator Edit: Personal content deleted. Don't go there again. DB
I felt bad in the beginning but the personal attitude of Dave, how he's treated me and responded to my emails and requests for updates, and his posts here have transformed my pity to anger. He's making a fool of all of us here, and laughing as he sits there with our money funding his projects.
I'm done giving him the benefit of doubt. Anyone of his supporters wants to help him out some more, I've got 2 of his coupons you can purchase for $125 each from me. In the meantime, any other customers can DM me to learn how to submit your name and unused coupon(s) to the legal complaint as I seek every legal avenue available to get my money back and stop him from ripping off others.
I don't know Dave personally, didn't agree to give him a donation or charity support. He didn't disclose any medical issues or other problems on why the redemption of these coupons might have issues. He has bills like the rest of us, and I see no reason why anyone here is giving him special treatment. He chooses to not have a job, and chooses to have his own business. He posts pics of a workshop he paid for with OUR money. In the last year, he has posted over 91 photos of knives for sale with the MARTELL brandname that he built with OUR money, a brand he was able to develop and buy supplies for with OUR money. Seems to me he has plenty of time to build custom knives from scratch (including custom handles) in the hopes of selling for $, but no time to do simple handles he's already been paid for. THIS IS FRAUD. There is no other way to look at this. Dave took our money in the commercial interest of being self sufficient and running his own business and when he wasn't able to do that, he sold coupons to raise money. This practice is against the law. There is no excuse for it. "Supporting his family" is not an excuse for breaking the law, and we're only seeing a small snippet of Dave's business/practices here on the forum. Say what you want but you don't know about any of his other business dealings, interaction on other forums, of how many people he's sold coupons to or how much money he's taken in. He built a website for MARTELL KNIVES (domain registered as private, 12/9/17)
Moderator Edit: Personal content deleted. Don't go there again. DB
I felt bad in the beginning but the personal attitude of Dave, how he's treated me and responded to my emails and requests for updates, and his posts here have transformed my pity to anger. He's making a fool of all of us here, and laughing as he sits there with our money funding his projects.
I'm done giving him the benefit of doubt. Anyone of his supporters wants to help him out some more, I've got 2 of his coupons you can purchase for $125 each from me. In the meantime, any other customers can DM me to learn how to submit your name and unused coupon(s) to the legal complaint as I seek every legal avenue available to get my money back and stop him from ripping off others.
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Dear Ron (AKA mile 162):
I would be happy to purchase your two coupons from you. Please PM me your Paypal address. While I don't have any knives that need rehandling right now, I'm sure that I will in the future.
I would be happy to purchase your two coupons from you. Please PM me your Paypal address. While I don't have any knives that need rehandling right now, I'm sure that I will in the future.
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Well Dave, Its been 3 years since my purchase, my google search turned up your posts at $125 each so thats the price I had to go off.
Paypal only lets you go back 2 years and my emails with you show a purchase of the coupon 7/7/2015.
Just did a mailbox search to find the receipt for Vlad and your actual store receipt shows coupons purchased at $125 each, and then a discount of $25 per coupon applied for “Buy 2 or more” promotion.
Vlad, thank you for your generous offer of bailing Dave out, you’ve got a DM with the details and pic of the receipt.
