What are recommendable splash-and-go medium-coarse-grit stones?

[Qapla']

I've been digging through the forums, but I seem to be getting conflicting messages on this topic.

For the 300-500-grit range splash-and-go stones, how do, say, the Sigma Power Select II 400, the Chosera 400, and Shapton Glass 500 match up?
(Knives likely to be sharpened include German knives as well as Japanese.)

The general gist I'm seeing is that the Shapton and Chosera are "known quantities" with the former offering less material and the latter being slower than its grit rating indicates; the Sigma I can't seem to find that especially much about, though, nor things like the Suehiro Debado 320.

 

[Ivan Hersh]

If my blade is really dull or in bad shape i start with my Chosera 400 if just somewhat dull i use my Chosera 800, but if my blade is just needing a small amount of sharping i just start with my Chosera 2000 then follow up with my King Pro Gold 8000.
Many times i just need the King 8000 to just improve a sharp blade.
I have also started testing a Big Green Brick of Joy it's a 2000 grit, and found it to be a really nice stone for really hard stainless steel blades.

 

[daveb]

As coarse grits go the JNS 300 works best for me. Splash and Go, works well with everything I've used it on (including Henks, Wusties and Messermeister).

 

[foody518]

I've been digging through the forums, but I seem to be getting conflicting messages on this topic.

For the 300-500-grit range splash-and-go stones, how do, say, the Sigma Power Select II 400, the Chosera 400, and Shapton Glass 500 match up?
(Knives likely to be sharpened include German knives as well as Japanese.)

The general gist I'm seeing is that the Shapton and Chosera are "known quantities" with the former offering less material and the latter being slower than its grit rating indicates; the Sigma I can't seem to find that especially much about, though, nor things like the Suehiro Debado 320.

I like the Sigma Power 400 in that grit range. Currently using that or the Shapton Glass 500 in that range depending on mood. The Sigma will be messier than the Glass.
Chosera 400 to be seems to be noticeably slower/a step finer than either of the above.
Can't speak on whether the standard thickness Glass is going to outlive the Sigma but either look like they will hang around for a while.
The Suehiro Debado 320 I got cuts decently fast but is noticeably more friable/dishier than either of the above.

I'm speaking more about thinning/wide bevel work than just edge work with the above comments. For just edge work any of those will last quite a while, in either case I think the Debado 320 would go the soonest.

 

[SeattleBen]

The suehiro also being a soaking stone to boot

 

[galvaude]

Knowing you other stones would help, but here are my 2 cents

The Naniwa Pro will bet slower than the Sigma and Shapton but not horribly slow. It is a bit finer and provides excellent feedback. On certain situations you can go straight from 400 to 2k/3k and get an amazingly aggressive yet clean edge.

The Shapton Glass 500 is good, doesn't feel too bad and leaves a nice scratch pattern, I go to 2k after it.

Sigma Power Select II are silicon crbide with very little binder and are designed to abrade wear resistant modern steel. IMO it is not need for kitchen knives and will feel the worse of all 3.

 

[inferno]

I've been digging through the forums, but I seem to be getting conflicting messages on this topic.

For the 300-500-grit range splash-and-go stones, how do, say, the Sigma Power Select II 400, the Chosera 400, and Shapton Glass 500 match up?
(Knives likely to be sharpened include German knives as well as Japanese.)

The general gist I'm seeing is that the Shapton and Chosera are "known quantities" with the former offering less material and the latter being slower than its grit rating indicates; the Sigma I can't seem to find that especially much about, though, nor things like the Suehiro Debado 320.

I have a feeling the glass500 will be many times faster than the chosera400.

With that being said. If you want to abrade metal very fast I think you should look into the glass 220 and shapton pro 220. these are about twice as fast as the glass 500. The glass is faster than the pro. But there is less material.

the shappro 1k is more like a 7-800. and its really fast for a 1000 but the 500 glass is much much faster than the 220 glass is much much faster than 500.

I like the feel of the 500. its actually one of my favorite glass stones. A good combo is the 500 and the 3k. Sharpens everything in a minimal amount of time. As galvause said the 2k pro is a good followup, but the 2k glass is just as good imo. but then again you get less material. I think the 2k pro is the best pro stone shapton makes. followed up by the 1k. Then maaayyyybe the 12k. or the 8k. talking pro stones. the 2k glass is also really nice. One of my favs. That was my only stone for several years. didn't feel outgunned at any time using only that stone. its very fast for a 2k.

the 500 glass wears very slow compared to how much material it removes. very slow! Also the 500GS is available in double thickness. get that one.

I once compared the 2k shappro to the 1k chosera/pro and they are pretty similar in speed. maybe the 1k chosera is 50% faster at most.
comparing the 800 chosera with the 1k shappro i think the shappro is faster. at most 20-40% though. The shappros are a lot less messy though.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

Gesshin 320 s&g is a great stone, a lot faster than the Chosera 400 and better for bevels and thinning. Haven’t used the Sigma or Shapton at those grits though. I do like the Chosera a lot for edges, both Japanese carbon (though I prefer the Gesshin 400 soaker) and German/Western stainless. It does the job quickly while feeling smooth, like “oh, hey, there’s a burr” without feeling and sounding like I’m grinding the thing up.

 

[Bert2368]

I have the double thick shapton 500 glass stone. It is my first choice for removing a good bit of steel fairly quickly, yet slowly enough not to make TOO serious of mistakes before I catch on to how I have screwed up...

I might use a powered grinding tool for bad chips, snapped off tips & etc., but as soon as the worst of the dammage is smoothed out, the Shapton 500 glass is my go to manual abrasive choice.

 

[K813zra]

I have the glass 500 and like that stone a lot but I'd not say it removes metal very quickly. I had the chosera 400 for a long time before getting the glass and I'd not say that one is much, much faster than the other but I would give the edge to the glass stone, no pun intended. I suppose that is why I bought a second one when I wore out the first. Having said that, I uses this particular stone as a sort of 1k replacement stone skipping to a 2k. If I want to remove some serious metal I'd go with a different stone entirely.

I am surprised to see the suehiro debado mentioned a few times. I know the cerax 320 is fairly popular and it is a great soaker in its grit range but the debado doesn't seem to be as well known, or so I though. Having said that, I used one and it is a great stone. Very fast, about on par for what a 320 should be. Much faster than the chosera 400 or the glass 500. I'd say it is faster than the pro 320 but not as fast as the 220 but that is from memory as I have not had them all at the same time.

Anyway, I agree with what one of the above posters said, the gesshin 400 is a wonderful medium coarse stone. Fast enough but smooth, great feedback and leaves a scratch pattern that you can jump fairly high with. Having said that, it is a soaker. I think in that same range my choice would be the aforementioned glass 500. However, if I really wanted a coarse stone, something I'd use before a 1k and not in its place, I'd go with something in the 220 range. The glass or pro that inferno mentioned would be the route I'd likely take for most scenarios and in fact I have the pro.

Loads of good options out there. Good luck in your hunt.

 

[foody518]

The suehiro also being a soaking stone to boot

The Suehiro Debado 320? It's splash and go

 

[K813zra]

The Suehiro Debado 320? It's splash and go

Define splash and go because I borrowed one from a member here and I'd not call it that. For clarity I used the Suehiro Debado No.400-SNE #320. This stone required at least 1 minute under running water or 5+ minutes in a bucket of water or else it drank like a fish in use.

Edit to add

For what it is worth, I looked at my notes and I have the Debado stones listed as follows
320 (+/-8 minutes soak time in a tub or 1-2 minutes under the tap)
1000 (+/-6 minutes in a tub or 1-2 minutes under the tap)
3000 (around 3 minutes in a tub)
6000 (More or less splash and go but a 1 minute soak makes the stone hold water better)

Mind you I only borrowed these stones and used them for about 3 weeks before letting them dry to send back out. So my time with them was limited. Ymmv.

 

[Ivan Hersh]

If you watch the many sharping videos you notice the people keep splashing water on their stones, this because they want water on stone during their sharping process.

So all that is important is to have some water near you, so you can keep splashing it on the stone while sharping your knives.

 

[Qapla']

Thanks for the info all!

 

[Chef Doom]

Sand paper is the poor man's rough stone.

 

[Barclid]

Knowing you other stones would help, but here are my 2 cents

The Naniwa Pro will bet slower than the Sigma and Shapton but not horribly slow. It is a bit finer and provides excellent feedback. On certain situations you can go straight from 400 to 2k/3k and get an amazingly aggressive yet clean edge.

The Shapton Glass 500 is good, doesn't feel too bad and leaves a nice scratch pattern, I go to 2k after it.

Sigma Power Select II are silicon crbide with very little binder and are designed to abrade wear resistant modern steel. IMO it is not need for kitchen knives and will feel the worse of all 3.

That Sigma Power Select II is a resin-bound AlOx stone, not SiC. The vitrified SiC stones in the PSII range are 240 and 1000. The rest are resin-bound AlOx.

 

[Barclid]

Define splash and go because I borrowed one from a member here and I'd not call it that. For clarity I used the Suehiro Debado No.400-SNE #320. This stone required at least 1 minute under running water or 5+ minutes in a bucket of water or else it drank like a fish in use.

Edit to add

For what it is worth, I looked at my notes and I have the Debado stones listed as follows
320 (+/-8 minutes soak time in a tub or 1-2 minutes under the tap)
1000 (+/-6 minutes in a tub or 1-2 minutes under the tap)
3000 (around 3 minutes in a tub)
6000 (More or less splash and go but a 1 minute soak makes the stone hold water better)

Mind you I only borrowed these stones and used them for about 3 weeks before letting them dry to send back out. So my time with them was limited. Ymmv.

I have all of those except the 320 SNE in my setup right now and none of them drink water to any appreciable extent. I have the 600, 1000, 3000, 6000. With the exception of the 600 they're all less friable than their Shapton counterparts and including the 600 they don't require soaking.

 

[Matus]

Shapton Pro 320 is a good stone, in my limited experience both coarser (feeling), faster cutting and faster dishing than JNS300

 

[labor of love]

Gesshin 320 s&g is a great stone, a lot faster than the Chosera 400 and better for bevels and thinning. Haven’t used the Sigma or Shapton at those grits though. I do like the Chosera a lot for edges, both Japanese carbon (though I prefer the Gesshin 400 soaker) and German/Western stainless. It does the job quickly while feeling smooth, like “oh, hey, there’s a burr” without feeling and sounding like I’m grinding the thing up.

This is not the first time I’ve heard really good things about the splash and go 320, I’m going to have to look into it.
Also, the shapton glass 320 is supposed to be amazeballs.

 

[K813zra]

I have all of those except the 320 SNE in my setup right now and none of them drink water to any appreciable extent. I have the 600, 1000, 3000, 6000. With the exception of the 600 they're all less friable than their Shapton counterparts and including the 600 they don't require soaking.

Idk none of them were truly splash and go for me. Like if I sprayed them with a spray bottle they would take in all of the water so I had to dunk or put them under the tap so they could quickly saturate and from there they held water quite well.

Edit: I don't know why the stones acted differently for me but I will note that when I got them in they had what felt like a rubber skin atop them so I put a grid on them and flattened them, fwiw.

 

[Barclid]

Idk none of them were truly splash and go for me. Like if I sprayed them with a spray bottle they would take in all of the water so I had to dunk or put them under the tap so they could quickly saturate and from there they held water quite well.

Edit: I don't know why the stones acted differently for me but I will note that when I got them in they had what felt like a rubber skin atop them so I put a grid on them and flattened them, fwiw.

I mean that's a pretty limited definition of "splash-and-go". If I splash water from my hands once or twice, all of them have water just sitting on the surface. When you compare that to soaking stones, a full minute of splashing isn't enough. I have video on my phone of all of them. In fact the JNS 300 and Shapton Traditional 320 soaked in water more than, say, the Debado SNE 600 grit (again, I don't have the SNE 320 grit just yet). In the video I have, you can see the water soaking in a bit after the first splash but by the second splash it stays put.

 

[K813zra]

I mean that's a pretty limited definition of "splash-and-go". If I splash water from my hands once or twice, all of them have water just sitting on the surface. When you compare that to soaking stones, a full minute of splashing isn't enough. I have video on my phone of all of them. In fact the JNS 300 and Shapton Traditional 320 soaked in water more than, say, the Debado SNE 600 grit (again, I don't have the SNE 320 grit just yet). In the video I have, you can see the water soaking in a bit after the first splash but by the second splash it stays put.

I didn't have that experience exactly with the 320 or the 1k. For me if I didn't soak them they required more of a refresh splash more often. Not so much the point of the initial amount of water being taken in but how they acted through the session.

Example, my shapton pro 1k does not require any extra water for the sake of needing water throughout a short-medium session but rather just to clean the stone if you so wish. That was not my experience with the debado 1k, it required more water as it would leach into the stone over time if I didn't first soak the stone. If I did, it held water just fine throughout the session.

I mean, to me a short soak improved the experience. To me a splash and go is just that, splash it and go. That is just my observation though.

Regardless, to the point of the debado stones, I did really enjoy them in use. I was only borrowing them but I was sad to see them go.

 

[Barclid]

I didn't have that experience exactly with the 320 or the 1k. For me if I didn't soak them they required more of a refresh splash more often. Not so much the point of the initial amount of water being taken in but how they acted through the session.

Example, my shapton pro 1k does not require any extra water for the sake of needing water throughout a short-medium session but rather just to clean the stone if you so wish. That was not my experience with the debado 1k, it required more water as it would leach into the stone over time if I didn't first soak the stone. If I did, it held water just fine throughout the session.

I mean, to me a short soak improved the experience. To me a splash and go is just that, splash it and go. That is just my observation though.

Regardless, to the point of the debado stones, I did really enjoy them in use. I was only borrowing them but I was sad to see them go.

Interesting. Another thing to note is that I know I have the "new" Debado SNE. I'm not sure what changed, whether it was simply packaging or a composition change of all of the stones. But my Debado SNE 1k is much less friable than the Shapton Glass 1k and soaks in no appreciable amount of water during use. If anything, I "push" the water off of the stone during use.

 

[K813zra]

Interesting. Another thing to note is that I know I have the "new" Debado SNE. I'm not sure what changed, whether it was simply packaging or a composition change of all of the stones. But my Debado SNE 1k is much less friable than the Shapton Glass 1k and soaks in no appreciable amount of water during use. If anything, I "push" the water off of the stone during use.

It is interesting but I'll defer to your experience because, again, I only borrowed them for a limited amount of time. I will say that I still think about picking up a 1k debado for myself for feel alone, I really liked it that much. I mean, I keep the shapton around because it is fast but it feels like crap...lol.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Do not have experience with a lot of these stones. Sounds like some pretty good choices here. Don't use coarse except teaching when get pretty dull knives sometimes. Xtra large gesshin 400 & large gesshin 600S&G. At home prefer coarse diamond plates & belts quickly thinning peoples home knives before taking them to the stones.

In my experience with S&G some act totally different than others. Example you can soak the Gess. 600 S&G no problem. Some S&G no soaking as you may damage the stones. Never soaked a shapton pro, no need just run under water use a mist spray bottle while sharpening. Small portable don't need soaking that's why they work so well as touch up stones on the go at working situation. Keep a spray bottle handy for most of my sharpening. Learned that trick years ago from Dave Martell stuck with it.

 

[Barclid]

It is interesting but I'll defer to your experience because, again, I only borrowed them for a limited amount of time. I will say that I still think about picking up a 1k debado for myself for feel alone, I really liked it that much. I mean, I keep the shapton around because it is fast but it feels like crap...lol.

Yeah I like it as well but it loads a bit fast when sharpening just hardened steel, particularly the more abrasion resistant PM steels. Works best for moderate abrasion on a wide variety of core steel if you raise a light slurry with a diamond plate. If you just want to touch up the edge/minimize the burr, using it without slurry works well and leaves a keen edge pretty easily. Keeps its form really well under heavy thinning work also but it's really susceptible to scratching from grit contamination so you need to take your time with your progression and clean the knife and stones well in between stages.