Why aren't Japanese knives popular within female buyers as end-customer?

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not at all, kitchen staff don't give two crap about knives. we are the exception craig.. to be honest i don't really care either, i just want better tools to make work easier.
 
Qualitycookie said:
I think it can also be a case of using what is at hand. Obviously in Japan this question is not applicable.
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Not that obvious. When I met my wife she owned 3 knives; two Henckels clunkers and a low end Kira santoku. In Japan, it seems Euro knives are more popular/desirable than the domestic product with the average home cook.
 
panda said:
not at all, kitchen staff don't give two crap about knives. we are the exception craig.. to be honest i don't really care either, i just want better tools to make work easier.
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But that sentiment is shared by kitchen people all the time. People that feel that way may be a huge minority(compared to the overwhelming amount of kitchen goobers) in a man dominated field it’s not surprising that knife stuff shares the same demographic as the kitchen.
 
panda said:
not at all, kitchen staff don't give two crap about knives. we are the exception craig.. to be honest i don't really care either, i just want better tools to make work easier.
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I agree Panda. In the vast majority of US kitchens I’ve worked in, pretty much everyone from Chef to prep guy used crappy house knives for every task. Only once (during a job interview practical) did someone come up to me and say “Is that a Carter?” Everyone else sees patina as dirt.
 
Well here is the perspective of a total gumby who just came here to learn things:
I love to cook and can be fond of a knife. (I have one of those very cheap Thai Kiwi 'pointy cleavers' and enjoy using it). But reading up on the fancy knife/hobby side of things, it's all the sharpening that puts me off. Maybe for a lot of women, the gap in their lives for beautiful but high-maintenance things is already filled by clothes/fashion/hair and beauty stuff. Personally I don't really do beauty but I certainly do fashion. But lots of men don't spend much time on their appearance, so they have an unfilled need, and the time and money, to polish and gaze lovingly at something else, like their car... or some shiny knives.

As far as preferences I would be careful to make the distinction between 'innate' preferences and essentially cultural preferences. If you grow up learning that certain things are 'cool' and manly, then they will tickle an extra special spot in your heart. Along with the spots for enjoying 'really well made functional objects' and 'care of beautiful things', which are not gender specific, but may already be filled by different hobbies for other cultural reasons.
 
I don't have the answer to OPs question, but I have noticed the trend in my family and friends.

My mom and wife will usually grab the paring knife to cut up onions and carrots (and roll their eyes when I explain to them there are much better options in the block). Friends have similar stories. For casual home cooks (men and women), I think they consider the knife as an appliance. Good enough will do, not much else matters.

But having prepared meals with old serrated knives, ASoTV ginsu knives, then German decent knives, and now better Japanese knives -- I recognice the ease of a quality knife on certain tasks and how much better the food turns out (there is a difference between crushing the onion, and delicate slices; uniform size chunks of anything cook evenly and prevent burning; etc). I guess it's how much you choose to care about the tools, skill, and outcome that feed your knife obsession (or lack thereof).
 
AnthonyC said:
I don't have the answer to OPs question, but I have noticed the trend in my family and friends.

My mom and wife will usually grab the paring knife to cut up onions and carrots (and roll their eyes when I explain to them there are much better options in the block). Friends have similar stories. For casual home cooks (men and women), I think they consider the knife as an appliance. Good enough will do, not much else matters.

But having prepared meals with old serrated knives, ASoTV ginsu knives, then German decent knives, and now better Japanese knives -- I recognice the ease of a quality knife on certain tasks and how much better the food turns out (there is a difference between crushing the onion, and delicate slices; uniform size chunks of anything cook evenly and prevent burning; etc). I guess it's how much you choose to care about the tools, skill, and outcome that feed your knife obsession (or lack thereof).
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I get the point here but I think people are only like that with some things. If you look at stoves and refrigerators most people want the being expensive stainless ones and now the ones that connect to your phone and weird **** like that. Many people don't like buying and driving the cheapest car on the market or wearing the cheapest closes etc. I wonder why knives get the shaft...
 
K813zra said:
I get the point here but I think people are only like that with some things. If you look at stoves and refrigerators most people want the being expensive stainless ones and now the ones that connect to your phone and weird **** like that. Many people don't like buying and driving the cheapest car on the market or wearing the cheapest closes etc. I wonder why knives get the shaft...
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Its also general perception. If Mercedes are generally viewed as good people want them. Stainless appliances are viewed as better than plastic = Desired more.
From what i see, what is considered high end is shun/henkles/Wüsthof/Global/Laguiole to a lesser extent Schmidt Brothers/ KitchenAid/ Cuisinart/ OXO.
Brands that are not generally recognized are not viewed as desired like your Home Depot brand.

Leveling up to a Japanese knife is like owning a ferrari for daily driving, but with out the public recognition that other luxury items would give. eg. expensive sunglasses, jewelry, clothes.
 
LucasFur said:
Its also general perception. If Mercedes are generally viewed as good people want them. Stainless appliances are viewed as better than plastic = Desired more.
From what i see, what is considered high end is shun/henkles/Wüsthof/Global/Laguiole to a lesser extent Schmidt Brothers/ KitchenAid/ Cuisinart/ OXO.
Brands that are not generally recognized are not viewed as desired like your Home Depot brand.

Leveling up to a Japanese knife is like owning a ferrari for daily driving, but with out the public recognition that other luxury items would give. eg. expensive sunglasses, jewelry, clothes.
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I'm not sure from a local standpoint I agree with a Mercedes being the best example but I get your point.
 
Mercedes here are a status symbol. Leading car brand Toyota. Cheaper, more reliable, and don't cost a fortune to service. Do not think having a sharp awesome chef knife will gather much status symbol points:sad0:
 
I don't think it has much to do with gender. I think it boils down to ignorance. Most folks think all Japanese knives are hyper expensive and extremely delicate. People don't venture out of their comfort zones so the old Henckels set does the trick. When they're too dull to cut jello they get tossed out and a new set comes home from Wal Mart
 
keithsaltydog said:
Mercedes here are a status symbol. Leading car brand Toyota. Cheaper, more reliable, and don't cost a fortune to service. Do not think having a sharp awesome chef knife will gather much status symbol points:sad0:
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I was thinking something along those lines too.
 
keithsaltydog said:
Mercedes here are a status symbol. Leading car brand Toyota. Cheaper, more reliable, and don't cost a fortune to service. Do not think having a sharp awesome chef knife will gather much status symbol points:sad0:
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Its a widely regarded phenom on that perception of goods is more important that reality.
And yes, I am comparing a henkels knife block with a Mercedes.
Those who want a standard knife will get a victornox or use generic plastic yellow handle blade, which i will compare to a honda.

And just like Mercedes making the B-class. Henkels makes the yellow handle generic knife as well.

Im sure everyone of us had friends or family say "I want a nice knife, what knife should i get?" then they always ask, "what about a zwilling?"
If they didnt care, they wouldn't be asking us about knives. Just like a person asking a car guy, "i want a nice car" ... with the eventual response "what about Mercedes, BMW ... etc. "


To answer OP's question. Sorry Stoned edge. I completely disagree with you.
Women not interested in knives is a male/female trait as men care about objects(collections), women care about relationships. (generally speaking)
Imagine, Watch collectors, train collectors, Car collectors, Computer Guys. - Yes women collect hand bags, Shoes, jewellery. but not to the same obsessive extent of the collectors of men. Watch Jordan Peterson if you dont believe me.
This can also be explain partially the Hikikomori in japan, where acquisition is more important than relationships.
 
Most people that have asked about knives, that I know, don't even know what a zwiling or victorinox is. If they asked about cars it would be a Corvette, Challenger etc. More likely, in this area they would ask about a truck or a Jeep. I just don't think this is a very universal way of looking at it.

Honestly, I know a lot of people who would equate a "good knife" to something from Rada Cutlery. Not even a second rate knife line from a known company.
 
a piece maybe that men seem to be more in love with their tools than just getting the job done. a $20 drill from Harbor Freight will drill a hole just like the $200 Bosch. you don't need a $50 hammer to drive nails, but enough are bought that several companies now make them. except in a restaurant situation, a woman just wants to cut food to make a meal. Is she happy to use a nice laser sharp knife? sure, but she will make a meal with a thrift store special if she has to. my wife sees the $200 spent on a new knife as $200 that could be spent on several other things that will benefit everyone, not just her for the 10 minutes it takes to prep a meal.
 
scott.livesey said:
as $200 that could be spent on several other things that will benefit everyone, not just her for the 10 minutes it takes to prep a meal.
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My point exactly.

But if your really interested in male/female trait you can watch this. Very hot topic in Canada at the moment.

[video=youtube;ewvqEqIXdhU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvqEqIXdhUI[/video]
 
Yep Lucus got that. I often compare thin edge Japanese knives to Ferrari's.

Have noticed that women do not like carbon blades & even stainless clad were the edge gets dark. Seen plenty guys go for carbon as soon as they get a chance to use it.

I got my better half a Takamura R2 Santoku that she loves. Lately she has been grabbing my carbon Carter. It is thin, very sharp, and little 135mm. Leaves it on the board in whatever juices she used it for while she eats her lunch. I wash it wipe it down maybe put a little oil on it. It's OK kind of cool that she likes to use the little Carter.

Our local rag had an article on the rise of sexual misconduct. It is not a rise it has always been there, changing times and the media bring it to the surface. When I think of the things that went on in the kitchens in early 1970's between cooks & waitress both verbally and physical, don't think you could get away with that today.

Don't mean to sound sexist woman as a rule are set up different than men. If men accept this they are better off. Face it men are better off with a good woman just treat them nice. And keep your opinions to your self if you know they don't want to hear it.
 
I agree in that I've noticed that generally men are spec whores, they obsess over the spec sheet of almost anything (cars, power tools, knives, hunting rifles, fishing rods, computers etc) but to me, this is an extension of men having hobbies more than women. Ever tried asking women about their actual hobbies....nearly non-existent (relationships and shopping are not hobbies).

Just something I've noticed over the years, women my age (late 20s) have no hobbies while guys in the same age bracket could list 2 or 3 serious hobbies off the top of their heads, hobbies=the accumulation of stuff.
 
StonedEdge said:
I agree in that I've noticed that generally men are spec whores, they obsess over the spec sheet of almost anything (cars, power tools, knives, hunting rifles, fishing rods, computers etc) but to me, this is an extension of men having hobbies more than women. Ever tried asking women about their actual hobbies....nearly non-existent (relationships and shopping are not hobbies).

Just something I've noticed over the years, women my age (late 20s) have no hobbies while guys in the same age bracket could list 2 or 3 serious hobbies off the top of their heads, hobbies=the accumulation of stuff.
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Define hobbies. In my circle almost all of the women raise chickens for "fun", knit, crochet, learn a third or fourth language, take dance class, swim class, go to the gym etc. These are all in my age range, 30-40. Older women that I know you can add to that list with things such as bingo and bowling etc. Hell, I remember a tea tasting group that my wife belonged to. They would drink tea and play freaking board games in what looked like a dilapidated building covered in graffiti--actually it didn't look like that, that is what it was.

Yall just know boring people...

I do agree that we men geek out over specs though. And I can not deny that I have or have had tons of hobbies and the attention span of a gnat...
 
Certainly any women out there looking to enter the online Japanese knife collecting community will stumble on this thread and feel welcome and respected -- this is the place for them. But only if they can be bothered to put down their handbags and pick up a hobby for once in their boring lives.
 
nastyfatdave said:
Certainly any women out there looking to enter the online Japanese knife collecting community will stumble on this thread and feel welcome and respected -- this is the place for them. But only if they can be bothered to put down their handbags and pick up a hobby for once in their boring lives.
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Well that's sure to make them feel welcomed... Not!
 
One other point I think is that men are interested with how things are made (from a general desire to be able to make things). If one is interested in and respects how knives (or any tools) are made, then one grows an appreciation for higher quality tools like Japanese knives and the craftsmanship and materials that go into their manufacture. For example in comparison to some other feminine collection items like shoes or purses I've never really noticed it going into understanding in the depth the features of manufacture. Plus having knowledge of tools makes you feel like you are more like someone who uses those tools to make great things even if you don't reach any great feats of accomplishment yourself.
 
I got Irony from it. Let's face the facts, any woman who makes it here probably won't have an obsession with handbags. I know I don't. Well except for old school Coach because real leather, hand stitched, built to take a beating and functional as well.
 
nastyfatdave said:
Certainly any women out there looking to enter the online Japanese knife collecting community will stumble on this thread and feel welcome and respected -- this is the place for them. But only if they can be bothered to put down their handbags and pick up a hobby for once in their boring lives.
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5 posts in 6 years. On average we won't have to put up with his BS for too long.
 
TheCaptain said:
I got Irony from it. Let's face the facts, any woman who makes it here probably won't have an obsession with handbags. I know I don't. Well except for old school Coach because real leather, hand stitched, built to take a beating and functional as well.
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I suppose it depends on why they visit. My wife cruises around here for ideas of what to get me for the holidays. Then again, she does not actively participate in conversations and could care less about knives. :lol2:

As an aside, two male cousins of my wife have a huge obsession with "shoulder bags", they are male purses. Seemed much more common when I lived in Europe. Men having purses just as often as women. Makes sense out of a utility standpoint when you walk EVERYWHERE. Need to carry some water, tissues, heartburn medication etc...Yep, I went to the dark side by mine is a tactical pilots bag, okay...:nunchucks: Holds a tablet too!
 
TheCaptain said:
Let's face the facts, any woman who makes it here probably won't have an obsession with hand bags.
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This is probably the truth! Great post

Also I apologize if my last post regarding men vs women and hobbies came on a little generalistic and borderline sexist. I certainly did not mean it in that way. The original post refers specifically to why both genders view the kitchen knife differently so it's difficult to tip toe around whys and why nots without ending up sounding a little sexist IMO.

Also I totally agree that my previous observation is probably the result of me knowing mostly boring peope, male and female lol

People who play with knives usually have thick skin so I'm not worried anyone might get worked up over this thread ;)
 
Maybe this point was made earlier, but we haven't exactly reached equality between the sexes in division of household responsibilities. It's still the case that women are usually the ones who cook for the family on a daily basis, who pack the kid's lunches before school, and are responsible for getting food on the table for dinner. It's a job, not a hobby. It's not something to think about when you have free time for doing something else.

Men are more likely to approach cooking as a hobby, with all the geeky tool acquisition associated with hobbies, simply because they have that freedom of choice for when to cook, or not cook.

I know this is a sweeping generalization, and there are other factors like the "knives are cool weapons" thing that boys are exposed to, in the culture. But I think freedom to approach cooking as a hobby, and not a job as a result of traditional gender roles, is definitely part of it.
 
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