240+ Knives and 1k Stones Are Hivemind Hype!

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Right now I'm chopping some herbs. I can't imagine trying to tackle this with a 210. You would be at it all day.

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Home cook brain says to split that into 3-4 batches and then do it (if working with a 210). My bigger problem with that is the board is too small - as you chop it up, it spreads out and stuff would start going off the board.
 
Issue people have with shorter knives is lack of skill, obviously. :popcorn2:
You’re the one with skill issues mister.

Kidding. If my job was to create 100 perfectly matched cubes of carrot I’d use the 180 or 210 of yours I have here now. If my job was to chop 6 cases of romaine for the salad bar I’ll be grabbing my 315 Raquin gyuto. The needs of someone in a volume setting vs a 50 Best kitchen are just so different.
 
I am a home cook, so not dealing with volumes as big as Stringer. But I chiffonade big piles of greens and herbs fairly often. Those are the cases where a 240 just isn't enough knife, even if one can make do.
 
Could also depend on your stance, size and setup. With the 270, I take a 45 degree angle, right foot back, knife in right hand. the knife hand is just slightly in front of my hip. In that very comfortable and stable position, you can still use the tip for precise work, because the knife is so long.

I can do that with a 240 as well, but the 270 feels more comfortable to me. It matches my limb geometry better.
 
Commercial use sure, home users are not typically doing large quantities of herbs and garlic or anything else.
1 radish, 2 jalapeños, 1 med onion, a few mushrooms, and 3 garlic cloves can be done just fine with shorties.

Garlic is always used in quantities of one head in my household. Every time I swear “this time I’m going to follow the recipe!”, 3 cloves turns into “Just a couple more. Hmmm, maybe a few more. Oh what the hell, might as well use it all at this point.”
 
Been working +20 years as a chef in various restaurants in Denmark, and I have never seen any chef work like that 😂

I could swear I saw a video by Ramsay or White or Weissman showing how to do it, but can’t find it anymore. @stringer has a youtube tutorial on it as well I think.

Anyway, as a home cook it’s been pretty entertaining trying to learn the technique over the past year. I don’t need the speed but it’s just fun to learn something new. You need a taller knife to make it work, but I haven’t noticed that more than 180-210mm makes a difference for the quantities I prep, typically one head or less.
 
Goodbye garlic
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Commercial use sure, home users are not typically doing large quantities of herbs and garlic or anything else.
1 radish, 2 jalapeños, 1 med onion, a few mushrooms, and 3 garlic cloves can be done just fine with shorties.
You're specifically mentioning small things. But 1 large onion, or 1 large fennel, or 1 bag of spinach is already enough to make me reach for my 270. 240-250 will do it if needed, but with a 210 it just becomes annoying.

Home cook brain says to split that into 3-4 batches and then do it (if working with a 210). My bigger problem with that is the board is too small - as you chop it up, it spreads out and stuff would start going off the board.
Hence why really big board is one of the best efficiency improvements you can do. For really big cooking sessions (like christmas) I break out my big boy boards; essentially a cheap Ikea countertop cut in half.
Yeah, but as a home cook I can take days to cut that volume of herbs! :)
You will using short knives... ;)
 
210mm is perfect for 99% of work (rest of the time is when you need a yanagi, deba, parer, honesuki, etc., instead). Precision work is easier with it, and still works fine on squash, heads of lettuce, etc.

Issue people have with shorter knives is lack of skill, obviously. :popcorn2:

Best chef in the world uses a 150mm tall petty for almost every task imaginable.
Using a head chef to make statements about knife sizes is like talking about WW2 weapons based on what Patton wore on his hip.
And especially when you get to the high end / molecular stuff, it just goes full bonkers. I bet some high end restaurants use their thermoblender more than they use their knives.
 
A tall petty is really kind of overkill for what you "need" to cook great food. I can and have done every task imaginable with a $3 paring knife. It's just not nearly as fun. 😁
Also works in reverse. When you forget a bird's beak or paring and need to prep lots of artichoke o_O:
 
Also works in reverse. When you forget a bird's beak or paring and need to prep lots of artichoke o_O:

You mean there's an actual purpose for those bird's beak paring knives? Do tell. Now I feel bad for letting mine languish for years.

Wait, no I don't. It's a Global, and I really don't want to have to sharpen it.
 
Tournée potatoes 🫣
Listen, if you can’t tornado a potato and haven’t practiced the F out of small dice, medium dice, large dice, brunoise, chiffonade, batons, and salad cut vs sautee cutting an onion, you don’t need a 240.
 
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I think this "240+ or die" mentality is some carry over from ham-fisted men with barrel chests strained against leather aprons, with scowls on their faces and sour dispositions, in dimly lit kitchens who were as much butcher as chef. How many of us have seen friends or family, hell our wives, prepare entire meals with paring knives? I've watched my prepare many a chef salad with one. No, they often aren't executing precise cuts but even so, would they need a 240 for that?
Great thread, with lots of interesting perspectives. It's enlightening to hear some of the practical/professional responses from someone like @stringer and others in the commercial kitchen world.

I always enjoy what HHC has to share, and I particularly like the paragraph above. It essentially mirrors my own musings about 240mm and longer Gyutos/Chefs Knives. I've often wondered how tradition-bound culinary schools are, or how macho professional kitchens are? I wonder whether the preference for longer knives comes from a "culinary culture" that is particularly male-dominated, and therefore competitive and testosterone bound? I have no answers, and make no judgements. I just wonder.

For my own use, I've had several 240's. I handle them just fine, and am completely comfortable with them. I've spent time in professional kitchens, and I can see, given the space, where they'd be handy for some tasks. However, in the constraints of my home kitchen, where I find them problematic is on my moderately sized cutting boards, and in and around my 2-bay sink. Both are just too tight. Really, the whole kitchen is too tight. I finally got rid of my last 240, and will stick with a 210. But the truth is, most of my cutting is done with some sort of 180mm (Bunka, Holy Rectangle, or Santoku). I prefer taller blades (50mm minimum) because they're better at scooping veg up (we no longer eat anything with eyes).

As an aside, I come from a long hunting tradition. I've hunted my entire life (now 62). My kids were raised on wild game. In that world, the greenest of greenhorns will typically have a BAK (Big Ass Knife). A Big Ass Hunting Knife will generally be anything with a 5" blade or longer. For me, the largest hunting knife I own has a 4" blade (Grohmann DH Russell #1 Belt Knife), but I've "taken apart" (gutted, skinned, quartered and de-boned) entire elk with blades as small as 1.75." Depending on the blade shape, 3" is about "just right." Now I'm not sure what any of that has to do with kitchen knives, but I believe the old tradition of a BAK came from the frontier days when a person generally had just one knife that was to be used for a lot more than just field dressing game. Perhaps that's where the 240mm thing comes from - a sort of "30-06" of kitchen knives.
 
To each their own, but if 'space contstraints' are a reason not to use 240s you must be either living in a trailer or doing something wrong. Even in my smallest appartment, using boards that are only about 30 cm / 12 inch deep I never had an issue using a 240 - even when rockchopping. It's a 240 gyuto, not a katana.

I don't think 'male dominated macho culture' really had much influence on why a larger blade can be more efficient or ergonomical; I don't think it had much influence on the size of fennels, carrots or other produce. ;)
But I do agree that '240 size best size' is probably a bit of a one-size-fits-most-compromise suggestion. In the end 210s, 240s and 270s all have their strengths and weaknesses, and each one of them has things they do best.
 
To each their own, but if 'space contstraints' are a reason not to use 240s you must be either living in a trailer or doing something wrong. Even in my smallest appartment, using boards that are only about 30 cm / 12 inch deep I never had an issue using a 240 - even when rockchopping. It's a 240 gyuto, not a katana.
Are you always so arrogant?
 
Are you always so arrogant?
No, the opposite rather. That's why I'm struggling to see the problem when even someone as clunky and clumsy as me can use 240s even on boards that are 25 cm deep just fine (that's 10 inches). 🤷‍♂️
I apologize if it somehow came across as arrogant or derisive but that's not how it was intended.

Unless you're physically tipping the knife into a wall because the workspace is only 30 cm deep I genuinely have problems imagining how it's problematic.
And I have nothing against trailers, it's just the only place I can think of where you regularly see such shallow countertops.
 
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No, the opposite rather. That's why I'm struggling to see the problem when even someone as clunky and clumsy as me can use 240s even on boards that are 25 cm deep just fine (that's 10 inches). 🤷‍♂️
I apologize if it somehow came across as arrogant or derisive but that's not how it was intended.

Unless you're physically tipping the knife into a wall because the workspace is only 30 cm deep I genuinely have problems imagining how it's problematic.
And I have nothing against trailers, it's just the only place I can think of where you regularly see such shallow countertops.


I regularly use 300mm+ blades on small cutting boards.

🤣


 
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