240+ Knives and 1k Stones Are Hivemind Hype!

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@SwampDonkey we were posting at the same time. It's a myth that you shouldn't have a disposal if you're on a septic tank. That myth is all over the country, but it's complete BS. I'd put one in and not think twice.
 
bradmacmt said:
I prefer the elevated bar as a visual break between the dining and kitchen, and it gives outlet space without relying on pop-up outlets. I also dislike sitting at a low bar. "Aircraft Carrier" Islands/bars are all the rage currently, but I still prefer them elevated. Also, yes, I might do just one large sink. That has become the trend, and overall, I think it's a good one, though there is something to be said for having a separate and smaller bowl with a disposal (which is what ours has). A pro kitchen has a 3-sink setup minimum.

What I would do is increase the width of the kitchen 6" and make the left side prep area 6" deeper.

As an aside, I'm a believer kitchens can be too large.
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Yeah I can see the benefit of having the bar as a sort of room divider. Personally I'm not sure I'd sacrifice the ability to have a large peninsula for it though; sometimes it's just really nice to have a large work surface. Especially when you're doing really large preps (for example big christmas dinners) or doing baking it comes in handy. On your average day to day cooking not so much.

I'm still somewhat on the fence about pop-up outlets. I don't necessarily dislike them - there's some fairly elegant solutions - as long as they're far away from any sink or wet areas. Would never want one within 2 meters of my sink.
Countertop-height bar is IMO fine as long as you have seating that matches it properly in height, and you have enough overhang - your knees stick out more on a lower bar. In my current appartment the small overhang on my ultra-cheap island actually became our most used seating. Didn't really set out to make a bar but it accidentally became one.

Extra depth is IMO a nobrainer that should become the new standard. It's surprising how rarely I see it here, when it's one of the simplest no-brainer upgrades you can do - and not even that expensive. The only reason not to do it IMO is clearance issues - or if the owner is so small it becomes a problem for reaching upper cabinets. On my girlfriends kitchen we made all the countertops 73 cm deep (28,74 inch) instead of the standard 60 cm (23,62 inch), and we're so glad we did. Might have gone for 80 if that hadn't cost a lot more due to the pricing brackets.
You get a lot more place to put stuff - whether that's prep bowls, utensil bowls, appliances, your go-to oils, or whatever, and the sink area becomes much easier to clean since there's more distance between the tap and the wall. And it's all extra counter-top space that doesn't necessarily cost you all that much extra.
 
bradmacmt said:
@SwampDonkey we were posting at the same time. It's a myth that you shouldn't have a disposal if you're on a septic tank. That myth is all over the country, but it's complete BS. I'd put one in and not think twice.
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To me, the lack of disposal encourages better sink vs trash habits. I'm much more conscious of the oils/fats I put down the drain as well as other bits...also knowing I'm on the hook for the bill if anything goes wrong helps the fastidiousness.

I will say to Jovidah's point, I was super glad to have a 210 instead of a 240 with me for the holidays this year. A bunch of people all cooking and moving around in one kitchen and using whatever boards available on whatever counter or island space available. My beloved Munetoshi 240 was great traveling last year in a big kitchen with big boards, but this year would've been at risk of getting tipped from hitting a wine bottle, pan, mise en place bowl, or whatever else was around. Even though the board was technically big enough for a 240, there wasn't any room in any direction off the boards and it would've been cramped/awkward.
Definitely changed my line of thinking on travel knives and what to value moving forward.
 
SwampDonkey said:
We bought our first house last year. The first change we did, and still the biggest QOL improvement to date, was swap the shallow, dumb, double sink for the biggest, deepest single one we could. Can fit my biggest Dutch oven in to "soak" (ignore) and still do other stuff without spraying the walls. Especially important since I have my mag rack above. I'm cursed with septic, so no disposal to bother with anyway.

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My cursory view of food disposal units showed that special models for septic tank users exist. You might want to look into it.
Also, your sink is pretty much exactly what I want to do here when I redo the sink area. I have a similar problem now where anything soaking has to be lifted onto the countertop to free up the sink, and it regularly creates a mess.
bradmacmt said:
When I lived in Germany winter of 1988/89, I got used to not having a disposal and separating green waste. Here, we tend to rely on disposals and they really work well. Not only does the waste NOT clog pipes (It gets ground very fine), but if you're on a septic tank, it does help break down other (******) waste. Conventional wisdom here says not to have a disposal if you're on a septic tank, but that's utter nonsense. I install them in every home I build, and would not be without one.
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I have to admit I'm surprised by it, but it seems like the research shows they're not really that problematic for the sewer systems either. But that hasn't stopped the Dutch government from putting a prohibition on using them, so I guess that ends the topic for me.
I think clogging pipes mostly starts with fats; can imagine that clogging becomes more of a problem when you grind down more fattier stuff. Though I guess few people are grinding down confit duck legs... :D
 
SwampDonkey said:
To me, the lack of disposal encourages better sink vs trash habits. I'm much more conscious of the oils/fats I put down the drain as well as other bits...also knowing I'm on the hook for the bill if anything goes wrong helps the fastidiousness.

I will say to Jovidah's point, I was super glad to have a 210 instead of a 240 with me for the holidays this year. A bunch of people all cooking and moving around in one kitchen and using whatever boards available on whatever counter or island space available. My beloved Munetoshi 240 was great traveling last year in a big kitchen with big boards, but this year would've been at risk of getting tipped from hitting a wine bottle, pan, mise en place bowl, or whatever else was around. Even though the board was technically big enough for a 240, there wasn't any room in any direction off the boards and it would've been cramped/awkward.
Definitely changed my line of thinking on travel knives and what to value moving forward.
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Yeah when I travel I usually throw in several different lengths, largely for this reason. Gives you a lot of flexibility when you have a 210, 240 and a 270 to choose from. Sometimes you just don't want to bother cleaning up a messy countertop first. ;)
It's also a hidden advantage of big tall cuttingboards that rarely gets mentioned. It gives you a bit more clearance for items behind the cutting board. It still won't allow a wine bottle or big utensil holder, but you can get away with putting plates, small bowls, salt containers and other small stuff there without obstructing your tip.
 
For the wine aficionados, here's the label hanging in the picture on our kitchen wall. Was the first year Mouton Rothschild made Premier Cru Classe. It was my fathers bottle and you cans still just make out the wine dribbling's down the side. He'll be 95 years old in February. I look at it, and think of him more than Picasso :)

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Jovidah said:
Okay you got me there, but this is an exclusively American problem. I've never seen food disposal shredders here in Europe. We just throw our garbage in the bin, with a seperate bin for all the green waste. Doesn't it clog the pipes when you're constantly working food wastes down your plumbing?
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No, not in most places. I hear NYC does not have disposers. Otherwise, you're generally fine, as long as you do not put any solid-at-room-temperature fats down the drain. Those are really bad.
 
OnionSlicer said:
Thread summary after 150 posts: 240mm+ gyuto is still the best knife in the kitchen :dancingcow:
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Wasn't it obvious from the start. If a large, knowledgeable group of people from all over the world and different backgrounds over many years recommend something again and again then it is safe to say that there is something to it. Of course, special situations and cases exist and people should pick what works for them and as you get more experienced and knowledgeable you can throw away all recommendations and do you, but for a general question what works for most in most situations ~240 and 1K are it.
 
I don't consider myself a fan necessarily, but I do go back all the time to my 1k stone because I'm not one of those people who's dilligent enough to sharpen on high grit stones often enough.
 
Bit late to the party but I wanted to share some interesting ideas from the world of East Asian kitchen design –

Jovidah said:
Plenty of people who went for open shelving ended up regretting it. I like having some of it (far away from the stove) but I wouldn't want it all over the place.
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SwampDonkey said:
the biggest, deepest single one
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Re sinks, I have been delighted using this guy.


They thought about every detail, down to the raised bumps on the sink floor.
 
mengwong said:
Bit late to the party but I wanted to share some interesting ideas from the world of East Asian kitchen design –





Re sinks, I have been delighted using this guy.


They thought about every detail, down to the raised bumps on the sink floor.
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The sliding out shelf might be useful for small people but for me as a tall person it adds 0 value. I'd just get annoyed waiting for it to come down, and any cabinetry / shelving that's too close to the countertop annoys the hell out of me.
The sink looks nice though I have no idea whether it would really make me any happier than just about any other large sink. The problem is that my bar is currently so low that beyond the basic craving for 'MOARRR SINK' I have a hard time imagining anything beyond that.

Definitly an interesting idea to look into other cultures for kitchen ideas though. One interesting Scandinavian thing I once picked up is that they added a dish drainer in the bottom of the cabinet above the sink. Seemed like an elegant solution.
 
Jovidah said:
One interesting Scandinavian thing I once picked up is that they added a dish drainer in the bottom of the cabinet above the sink. Seemed like an elegant solution.
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Works well except if the drain end misses the actual sink by a couple of inches so the drying dishes end up dripping right onto the base of your electric kettle, exactly where the molded plastic says “DO NOT IMMERSE IN WATER”… pop goes the circuit breaker. Ask me how I know lol
 
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Back to stones, I must say that 1k stones are good for raising a burr you can feel. I have never had a feel for burrs on finishing stones. I’m sure they are there and notice them on the first few edge leading strokes as part of burr removal but I’m just not good at feeling them with my fingers.
 
Justinv said:
Back to stones, I must say that 1k stones are good for raising a burr you can feel. I have never had a feel for burrs on finishing stones. I’m sure they are there and notice them on the first few edge leading strokes as part of burr removal but I’m just not good at feeling them with my fingers.
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A trick I like is holding a paper towel or tissue on your finger tip, then feel for the burr as normal. When my hands are beat up from judo and insensitive, this helps me out. Even a very fine burr will snag the paper fibers, usually I can both feel and hear it.
 
The 240 thing is a no-brainer for me. But I have thought about it some more. And I honestly don't know what stone I would recommend to a newbie. I did not own a 1k stone until many years after I bought my first water stone and after I bought it I mostly only used it to have a third stone in the rotation for three stone method stone leveling. After a few years of using the two stone method I leaned why that is not a thing people recommend. That tends to amplify the dishing in one stone and convex the other.

In my case, I had a dished Shapton Glass 500 and a convex Naniwa Super Stone 2k. Adding in a Shapton Pro 1k and adopting the three stone method helped a lot. This was still long before I learned about Atomas. And I have still never actually bought a 140 for some reason. So I guess my answer is that it would be really hard for me to recommend just one stone. And if I did I would lean toward a diamond combo over synthetic water stones.

Nowadays here's what I use for 99% of my sharpening.

Naniwa Diamond 600 if any kind of bevel reset needs done.

And then finish or touch up according to what kind of edge I want. I rotate through different naturals but here are the options currently in the drawer.

Coarse washita - 1k
Fine washita - 2k
Coticule - 4k
Llyn Idwal - 6k

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stringer said:
The 240 thing is a no-brainer for me. But I have thought about it some more. And I honestly don't know what stone I would recommend to a newbie. I did not own a 1k stone until many years after I bought my first water stone and after I bought it I mostly only used it to have a third stone in the rotation for three stone method stone leveling. After a few years of using the two stone method I leaned why that is not a thing people recommend. That tends to amplify the dishing in one stone and convex the other.

In my case, I had a dished Shapton Glass 500 and a convex Naniwa Super Stone 2k. Adding in a Shapton Pro 1k and adopting the three stone method helped a lot. This was still long before I learned about Atomas. And I have still never actually bought a 140 for some reason. So I guess my answer is that it would be really hard for me to recommend just one stone. And if I did I would lean toward a diamond combo over synthetic water stones.

Nowadays here's what I use for 99% of my sharpening.

Naniwa Diamond 600 if any kind of bevel reset needs done.

And then finish or touch up according to what kind of edge I want. I rotate through different naturals but here are the options currently in the drawer.

Coarse washita - 1k
Fine washita - 2k
Coticule - 4k
Llyn Idwal - 6k

View attachment 290544
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Thanks for taking the time and being open minded buddy. I was thinking more on this this morning myself and I came to more or less the same conclusion. I think for me, the root of it is I don't like the one-stone option.
 
I'm late getting back to this, but that is a beautiful, beautiful kitchen. I wonder about the perspective of the photo. You say it's a galley kitchen, but there seems to be a fair amount of room behind the counters, no? In any case, I can totally see opting for smaller knives or a cleaver when cooking side by side, though I, personally, would still miss the longer blades for things like herbs, greens, duxelles...

I use a 1K JKI for my R2 and Hap40 knives, but, for most others, I stick with naturals.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
Curious...

How many 1k fans still use one regularly outside of polishing?
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I use 1k for sharpening cheap stainless. Vnox, steak and paring knives, family knives, etc. Gesshin 1k is fast enough and pleasant enough in use that I don't bother with lower grits for edges and they don't really benefit from going higher. Sure, I could do something like 320>2k but but the time I've faffed around with an extra stone I'm not saving any time. On my nice knives, its mostly coming out for polishing progressions only these days.
 
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